95. Spot and Stop Bullying and Incivility at Work with Renee Thompson

Transcript – Episode 95: Spot and Stop Bullying and Incivility at Work with Renee Thompson

Joe:
The word bullying gets thrown around a lot. But what is it and what is it not? And how does it differ from incivility? Most importantly, how do you spot and stop both? We’re doing a deep dive now on Boss Better Now.

Jamie:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author Joe Mull.

Joe:
Hello again, BossHeroes, welcome back to our show, which aspires to give you insight, advice, humor, and encouragement to create the conditions at work for people to thrive. I’m so glad you are with us yet again, and I am super excited about the very special piece of content that I am gonna share with you in this episode. If you’ve been listening to our show for a while, then you probably know by now that twice a year I hold a BossBetter Virtual Summit, which is a daylong online conference that’s really designed to help leaders, just like you, continue to become better bosses and to continue helping people thrive at work. And for these events, I tap into my network of colleagues, experts, and thought leaders who have various insights or expertise to solve the challenges that many of us face on a day-to-day basis when it comes to leading people. And at one of our recent summits, I had a phenomenal conversation with Dr. Renee Thompson for a segment on how to spot and stop bullying and incivility in the workplace. That interview was about 30 minutes long, and our attendees at that conference just sat in rapt attention and they asked some amazing questions. And I, I know that so many folks who were participating in that live virtual event were just scribbling notes the whole time. And so, I have decided this week to share that interview from that live event with you in its entirety.

Joe:
A little bit about Renee, because it’s important that you understand her background. Dr. Renee Thompson is a leading authority on workplace bullying and professional development with more than 25 years in clinical practice and nursing leadership in healthcare. She has written several books. Her doctorate is in nursing practice, and she travels the world speaking to organizations at conferences, workshops, seminars, and events. She really is one of our country’s foremost experts and bullying and civil and incivility in the, the workplace. In fact, she is the founder and CEO of the Healthy Workforce Institute. So here it is my conversation with Dr. Renee Thompson.

Joe:
All right, Dr. Renee Thompson is here. Renee, my friend. Hello. I’m so glad you’re here today. How are you?

Renee:
I’m doing really well, Joe. How are you?

Joe:
I’m great. I am so glad that our, our attendees at our BossBetter Virtual Summit are gonna get to hear from you today. As I shared, we have almost 160 folks who are showing up today really to get better at creating the conditions through interaction that allow employees to thrive. And I’m excited that we’re gonna talk about bullying — especially because it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, right? — By employees and supervisors and more, but not everything they think is bullying actually is. So why don’t we start off today by having you tell us what bullying is and what it is not?

Renee:
Oh, gosh. I’m so glad you asked this question because when I’m talking to other leaders, it’s like the number one thing that I want them to clearly understand is what bullying is and what it’s not. Here’s the definition of bullying. It’s the repeated patterns of disruptive behavior with the conscious –” I know I’m doing this to you”, or unconscious, not even aware, attempt to do harm. And when somebody reaches out and they ask me, how do I know if my coworker or my employee’s a bully, or maybe they’re just a drama queen or a jerk, or, you know, maybe they’re just having a bad day. How do you know? We look for three things, and I think it’s really important to write these three things down. Number one, there has to be a target. Let’s say, Joe, for some bizarre reason, I don’t like you, okay? And I find fault. I criticize. I set you up for failure, but I’m fine with everyone else. It’s just you. I don’t like you.  Have to have a target. The behavior has to be harmful in some way. So, for example, if I roll my eyes at you, it’s that harmful?

Renee:
It’s not nice, but it’s not really harmful by itself. But let’s say you are taking care of a patient and I withhold some information deliberately to set you up to fail. Now that’s harmful. And it has to be repeated over time. It can’t be one time I get testy with you in a crisis situation. So that’s what bullying is. You have to have a target. The behavior has to be harmful and then has to be repeated over time. What we often find, especially in healthcare, is we actually don’t find a lot of true bullying, but we find an awful lot of incivility. And incivility is all that other stuff, the eye-rolling, the gossiping, the mocking that, you know, I give the easiest assignments to the people I like, and I give the worst ones to the people. I don’t. So that’s the two, you know, that’s bull… well, the definition of bullying. But then usually, like I said, what I find is mostly everything is incivility.

Joe:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So there has to be a target. Yep. the behavior has to be harmful, and it has to be repeated over time. Yes. Yes. Okay. so, what are the most likely ways that these kinds of issues when there really is bullying taking place are going to come to the surface? Because we know that not a lot of employees speak up, right? Does someone else have to notice is this gonna go on unaddressed unless the boss notices? How does this come into awareness so that we can deal with it?

Renee:
You know, it, it can happen sometimes right under the boss’s nose that the boss might not know what’s going on. Especially when we take a look at behavior and, and really, whether it’s bullying or incivility, it, it’s all disruptive. It’s all a distraction to the work, and it all needs to be addressed. But we don’t actually see as much of that overt yelling, criticizing cursing, especially in, in front of the boss. But even, you know, in just the patient care areas, that’s almost easier to address. But what we often find is all that covert stuff, it’s easier for the boss to know that overt bullying is happening. There’s yelling, there’s criticizing all that stuff when a lot of it shows up in those subtle, covert, undermining, passive-aggressive, and therefore the boss sometimes doesn’t know. But there’s always clues. All bad behavior leaves clues over time.

Renee:
The first thing that I would do is just to start paying attention. Start paying attention, like out in your department, especially if as people start their shift, and if there’s any kind of handoff of report, how they handoff reports. Start paying attention to people’s body language and how they react to other people. Also, look at the data. What’s your retention rate? Because we know when people are dealing with bullying and incivility over time, they will leave you. So, if you have a high turnover rate, chances are there’s a behavioral problem. And then there should always be some type of anonymous objective way to collect information about the relationships the employees are having with each other. A lot of organizations already have standard surveys. I mean, we have our own survey that we share with people. But there’s usually some survey or some opportunity to collect information from employees about how they’re treated by each other.

Joe:
You know, that’s such an important point that I don’t want to gloss over. In this day and age, I think every organization, and actually, every supervisor needs to ask themselves, have you created a platform or a method or a system for employees who are feeling unsafe to speak up about it, even if it’s just anonymously? Is that kind of what I hear you advocating for?

Renee:
Absolutely. And you know, I’ve had some discussions, arguments with people in a human resource role where they say, no, it can’t be anonymous. You know, how are we, how are we supposed to help them if they’re not willing to put their name on it? And I’m thinking if you’re forcing people to actually write their name, and this is what’s happening to me, you’re not gonna know what’s happening. Cuz people are afraid of retaliation. They will not speak up. But let’s just say you hear a lot of reports about this one department, this one clinic, you know, physician’s office that’s getting very similar complaints so that it’s not just a one-time thing. Somebody gets annoyed and they’re gonna call in a hotline and complaint, but you’re noticing a pattern of behavior, then that gives you enough, I’d say, fodder to go and act and maybe share that information with the leader in that department so that then they can do a, an additional assessment to see if that’s really happening. But you’ve gotta give people an anonymous way to report. Yeah. Because they say studies show 40% of all targets of bullying never speak up. Right. Because they’re afraid and they leave.

Joe:
Right. And, and, you know, for, for all the folks who are, are watching our conversation right now, I want you to recognize and think about your number one job is to keep people safe in the workplace. And if you came to work for me tomorrow I, I would be looking at you and telling you that more than anything else, I want you to know that you could come to me with anything. And that if you in any way, shape or form feel unsafe at work, you can come to me and you can tell me that, and you can tell me as much or as little as you want to. Right. And we’ll figure out where to go from there. And if, if it, it starts with you sliding a note under my office door, then so be it. And, and we’ll just work on it from there.

Renee:
Yeah. Just start somewhere. And it’s actually one of the questions that we ask in a survey that I do, you know, quite often is do I feel co like I feel comfortable going to my boss to share concerns about behavior. Okay. So, it’s not, not, you know, performance or, or miss clinical mistakes. It’s, I feel comfortable going to my boss to share my experience with, you know, the disruptive behaviors of my coworker. You’ve gotta create that psychological safety, psychologically safe environment where your employees are willing to speak up even if they are free. That’s the key is that they’re willing even if they’re afraid.

Joe:
Yeah. So many of the folks listening to this have, have read my book, no More Team Drama, and have heard me speak a lot on reducing team drama in the workplace. And one of the, the cornerstone behaviors that I talk about, and I know that you talk about this in a lot of the work that you do as well, is assuming good intent and going to the source, right? If you’re frustrated or bothered by something that a coworker says or does, we should ask ourselves what would make an otherwise good person act that way? And I should go to them and say, hey, this bothered me. Let’s have a conversation. If I’m enduring bullying, is it fair as a supervisor, is it fair for me to expect or ask an employee who feels like they’re being bullied to take that as a first step? Or are there different rules in the kinds of circumstances you’re talking about?

Renee:
Wow. this is a great question, Joe. And it’s I’m gonna say it’s a complicated one. And the, the short answer is it depends. We always want to empower people to speak up on their behalf. But if I’ve been bullied by a coworker for decades, okay, I’m exaggerating a little. But if I’ve been bullied and I feel threatened, and I feel that if I speak up, this person’s going to retaliate against me. Especially if it’s somebody in some type of power position. The person who makes my schedule, the person who assigns work to me actually forcing me or just saying, you’re gonna have to speak up to this person is the wrong approach. Right. Here’s a better approach. So, you have to look at each situation differently and you have to look at the person. Can I start coaching them? I’m big on scripting and I know you do some scripting too.

Renee:
It’s, even if it’s as simple as that person’s saying to the quote-unquote, bully, time out. It’s not okay the way you’re talking to me right now. That right there may be a huge step forward for the target, but they might not even be ready to do that. Here’s a, like I said, a better approach. We know that the most powerful intervention to stop the cycle of bullying is for the witness to speak up. I guarantee there’s somebody in that department that knows this is happening, and it’s to empower them to speak up on behalf of the target. But then again, there’s some other ways that we can, you know, empower the employee who’s being bullied to address this. And sometimes it’s just starting a documentation trail and at least they feel that they’re taking action, they’re doing something. And sometimes just over a period of time that alone helps them build the courage to then actually speak up on, on their behalf. But it’s a, it’s a whole team effort when you’ve got somebody who’s really being tortured by another human being, which is, I don’t understand it at all. But then again, that’s why I do this work.

Joe:
Right. I, I, there are two really powerful takeaways. I just wanna make sure that our, our viewers are writing down and making note of. I love the scripting that you just gave where you said timeout, how you’re talking to me right now is not okay. That’s okay. Did I get that right? Yep.

Renee:
Yep.

Joe:
Okay. So, for everyone watching, you know, that’s a simple script that you can take back to your teams and you can teach each other, and you don’t have to be a part of that conversation. We can equip our personnel with that language and ask them to use it if there are circumstances that they find it necessary. The second really powerful piece too was this idea. You just said it and it just went right outta my head a minute ago. It was the very last thing you were talking about.

Renee:
Oh, documentation.

Joe:
Yes. Thank you. So, I love this idea that, you know, if, if an employee comes to me as a boss and expresses that they’re feeling unsafe or feeling, if they use the word bullied, but they’re really hesitant to speak up, they’re really hesitant to take any action, it doesn’t feel like there’s a lot we can do. That’s a great first step that I think a supervisor can suggest to the employee. Like, hey, just start, start a journal. Start writing things down. Let’s capture some of this. And if you decide you wanna use it or need it, you’ll have it.

Renee:
Yeah. And, and I just wanna add one more thing to that. Cause I think this is so critically important. It’s a common mistake leaders make. Let’s say you finally have, you know, an employee finally comes to you and says, I’m being bullied. This is what’s happening. And the, the manager says, can you document that? I’m not writing anything down. We have the tendency to say, well then don’t come to me. Right. If you’re not willing to do your part, then I can’t do my part. That is the worst mistake you can make because the behavior’s still going to happen. Now you’re not gonna know about it cuz you’re, you’ve just pushed it underground. So, here’s what you say instead, it’s okay. But you know what, why don’t you just start, like you said, a documentation trail, and I want you to keep coming to me when you are ex you keep coming to me because then as the leader, you’re gonna use it as a coaching opportunity. Yeah. But it’s encouraging them to document it. And then guess what? When they leave the room, then you document it <laugh>. Okay. You can start a documentation trail too,

Joe:
You know, and, and most of the folks who sign up for something called a BossBetter Virtual Summit, <laugh>, they, they’re, you know, we’re preaching to the choir a little bit, right? They, they love their employees. They, they want to show up in the healthiest possible way. They’re protective of them. And if they hear that someone is suffering in some way, it might be the kind of circumstance where they want to go to the bully or to the accused person and pull that person in and say, hey, listen, we need to have a conversation about, you know, how you’re showing up. Is that the right thing to do? Is that an appropriate first step? Should the boss sit that one out? What say you?

Renee:
Yeah. here’s what I think is a better approach. Because what happens is if an employee comes in and says, this person treated me this way, I’m not willing to document the other thing that leaders do says, well, I’m, well I’m gonna go talk to them. And they say, no, no, no, no, no, don’t say anything. If they find out it was me, you know, they’re gonna make my life a living, you know, h e l l. So, I think a better approach is to start, and this is one of my best strategies for cultivating a healthy workforce, okay? A professional, respectful, you know, supportive workforce culture. And that is to set behavioral expectations as an entire team. It’s getting everybody’s input and ask the questions, how do we always wanna be treated in this space? How do we never wanna be treated in this space?

Renee:
And then you gather a list of, you know, you can call them department norms, that this is how we treat each other here. Because once you have that, and here’s the thing, don’t make people sign it. Please do not make people sign it. Signing a piece of paper never changes behavior. If it did, I wouldn’t have a growing company on this. You know, based on this problem, just sign a piece of paper code of conduct. Oh, we’re good. It’s the right thing to do. As I always say, adult professionals. Now that you have that, when you hear about behavior, you know disruptive behavior from someone, you can pull that person in and say, hey, this was brought to my attention that, and then you, you know, show on your department norms where they sort of violated the norms. And I always start by saying, what happened? You didn’t honor our agreement. And then you, what, what happened? You ga engage in conversation. If that happens again, now you say, okay, now you’ve violated it, not okay. But it’s not what I as the boss say, it’s what we as adult professionals agree to. Because now I have something that I can use. And it’s not just the, the one target who complained about that bully. I now have a professional agreement that we all agree to that I can use. So, it’s protect.

Joe:
And I love the framing that you use, the always and never, you know, for, for everyone watching this video right now, you just got a simple but powerful staff development exercise. So, can you give us to us one more time, what’s the phrasing of those two questions?

Renee:
Yeah. How do we always wanna be treated in this space? And how do we never wanna be treated in this space? And here’s what I get from people. We talk to each other, not about each other. Yeah. We help each other no matter what we give and receive feedback. Okay. So that we can continue to improve as professionals. Like there’s just a lot. And then you take those, and you spin them into commitment statements.

Joe:
And, and how would you encourage folks to execute that dialogue? Are people gathering all in a room together when we are allowed to do that safely? Yes. for that kind of open discussion, are you asking people to an, to anonymously or privately submit their answers to that question? I I’m sure people have done it different ways. What have you seen and what do you like?

Renee:
Well, it’s funny, I’ve always done this in person with my clients. We’re working in departments doing the consulting, but I’ve had had to do this now virtually. And I, I kind of like the virtual because people could type in some anonymous things, and we actually had a better discussion. I was like, Ooh, maybe there’s a, you know, silver lining. There’s

Joe:
Some keyboard safety, keyboard courage, right? That you get sitting behind the monitor.

Renee:
But personally, I like to be in a room with people and I always start with intent. Everything should start with intent. Our intent is to create, to be very intentional about the culture we’re creating here. Cuz, you know, culture happens all by itself. You wanna be intentional about the type of culture you’re, you, you wanna create in your space. Cuz it’s kind of one of those things where the organization as a whole may have their mission, vision, and values, and codes of conduct and all those things. And that’s great. Siri, it’s, it’s important, right? People care most about what happens in their department. So, we’re gonna make sure that we’re intentional about that. And then you say, we wanna create, and you always start with a positive, professional, supportive, respectful. People wanna feel nurtured, they wanna have a good experience here. We want this to be a great place to work. Yeah. So how, what does that look like? So yeah, that’s how you start. So

Joe:
No, no, no. You’re fine. You’re fine. I’m, I’m attempting to pack in as much of you as I possibly can in the limited time that we have together. And I, I find myself going, okay, I know many of the folks watching us right now have bullies and they know they have bullies. And maybe, maybe, like you implied earlier, it’s, it’s an entrenched thing and it’s a legacy employee that has been there. And, you know, some of these folks are working in clinical environments. Some of these folks were working in office environments. If I’m a boss and I know that I have a bully, what steps should I take beyond some of what you started here, right? We, you, you, you mentioned some of those first conversations and looking at some of the expectations that are already in place, but maybe we’ve tried that. Maybe we’ve addressed some of those bad behaviors before. Can this person be saved? Can they be rehabilitated? Where do we go?

Renee:
This is what I find a lot. This person’s been here for decades. They’re toxic, they’ve been bullying people. They tend to be your most competent employee for one thing. But people complain about this employee all the time. I always ask, has anybody actually sat down and had an honest conversation with this employee? You’d be surprised. A lot of times the answer is no. So that’s where it starts. I would schedule a meeting, sit down with that employee face-to-face, don’t have your desk in front of them, okay? Face-to-face, chair to chair, and say, look, you’ve been here for a really long time, 20 years, 50 years. It doesn’t matter. Two years. Okay. You’re one of our like always start with where they do really well. You’re one of our best technicians. You, and then be specific as to what that means. Like why are they the best?

Renee:
What do they do that’s so great, great? But the way you treat people is not okay. It’s gotta stop and set very. So, like, you’re gonna wanna give examples. Okay? So, you gotta do your homework before you have this conversation, right? You gotta do your homework. You gotta get crystal clear on the behaviors cuz you can’t just call somebody, you know, you’re such a bully in this department. Worst thing that you can do. Say the way you treat your coworkers has to change and here are the things that I never wanna see from you again. And then here’s one of my Jedi mind tricks. Once you’ve identified all of the behaviors that you never wanna see from this person, you lean in a little bit, look them in the eye, and you say, can I count on you to never do these things again?

Renee:
You have to get them to give you some type of verbal commitment because it’s like a mental spit in the handshake. Because let’s say they go and behave that way again, which they probably will. Yeah. When you pull them back in, you say, what happened? I thought you said I could count on you <laugh>. It’s like a guilt treatment. But I’m gonna give you one more tip. Yeah. Before you have that conversation, go to HR, and let HR know you’re having that conversation because the first time you address this person’s behavior, they’re gonna go to HR and claim that you’re bullying them. Happens all the time.

Joe:
Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. I love the question. Can I count on you? We call that in our feedback training. We call that an accountability question. Woo. That you, you, you don’t lock in the effectiveness of that feedback conversation until you ask an accountability question. So, I love that. I hope everyone wrote that down. Before we finish, Renee, I, cuz I know there are at least two other questions I want to ask you. We have two prizes that we’re gonna give away to our boss, better virtual summit attendees. We are gonna get two of your Be Kind packages. So why don’t you, yeah. You’re wearing the button. Why don’t you tell everybody about what the Be Kind packages are and where they can get them and then we’re gonna give them away. Okay.

Renee:
The Be Kind package, I, I actually initiated this as another way to eliminate cruelty in healthcare. And I came up with the button because I, I worked with a nurse leader who always wore blue scrubs, a pearl necklace, and pearl earrings and it looked weird. So, I said to her the one day, Lisa, why do you wear pearls and scrubs? And she says, well, anytime I’m wearing pearls, they remind me to always be a lady. And she says, I think somebody’s got going to have a hard time being mean to me if I’m wearing pearls.

Joe:
Wow.

Renee:
So, when people are wearing these be kind buttons, it reminds them to be kind. And when somebody is looking at you wearing one, I think they’re gonna have a harder time being mean to you If you’re wearing a “Be Kind” button.

Joe:
Let’s hope so.

Renee:
You get the be kind buttons, you get some note cards that basically are thanks for making a difference in my life. Okay. And then you get a tip sheet that’s 50 ways to spread kindness at work.

Joe:
I love it. So, here’s what we’re gonna do. I want you to take the most powerful thing that you’ve heard Renee say so far in our conversation. Type it in the chat box and then the first two people who hit enter and we see them, you’re gonna each get a Be Kind package from Renee.

Renee:
Spread kindness.

Joe:
All right two questions before we wrap up here, Renee. And one burning question that I know everyone watching this right now is wanting to ask, Ooh, what if the bully is the boss? What if the person in charge, what if it’s a person in power? What do we do?

Renee:
There are a couple of things that you can do. I would absolutely start a documentation trail cuz you’re gonna need it. And here’s the other thing. You have to always align your documentation with some outcome of policy violation, impact a patient, something. Okay? So, try to make sure your documentation aligns with something in that affects patients, the team, your policy. So, make sure you get a copy of your policy too. I do advocate having an honest conversation with your boss and that is a sit down, bring a cup of coffee with you. If your boss likes coffee, give one to your boss. And then I always start with this phrase, it’s a nice script to initiate a conversation. The relationship I have with you is important to me and I’ve noticed that lately you’ve been and then spell out the behaviors and I’m wondering why that is and it makes me think that maybe I’ve done something to offend you at some point and I didn’t realize it.

Renee:
Can we talk about it? And then just be quiet. Now for some people they’re not willing to do that. I totally get that. But if it’s early into what you would say, I’m being bullied by my boss, it’s a nice way to initiate that conversation cuz people have done this Joe, and it’s actually turned into a very positive experience. Like, oh my gosh, I I’m so sorry. I’ve been like, there’s, there’s a reason you can go above your boss and talk to their boss. You can file a complaint with HR and sometimes I’ve actually recommended that people leave Right. When it’s gotten that bad where it’s affecting your health and you’ve done your part, I advocate, you know, got one precious life, you know, and it’s not subjecting yourself to stress to the point where it’s affecting your health. So.

Joe:
Right. Right. Well, a lot of good options in there. Thank you so much for that information. I wanna end our time together with where we started with this idea that there’s a lot of things that get labeled as bullying and, and not all of it is. And I, I’m reminded of my son Miles, who is about to turn eight years old. And every time he’s hungry he stops and in the middle of the room he goes, oh, I’m starving <laugh>. Right. He uses the most extreme description Yeah. To talk about what is maybe an everyday or not all that uncomfortable situation. And it just makes me wonder is, is it harmful that people are overusing the word bullying or labeling a lot of behaviors that as bullying that aren’t, is that harmful? Is there, how do we get that team, the, our teams to use that label properly? Does it matter? Are there issues with people crying wolf around bullying when maybe that’s not what’s actually happening? There’s a lot in there for you to unpack, so I’m just gonna let you go.

Renee:
Yeah. I actually think it is harmful and it’s harmful from the perspective of it minimizes your opportunity to change that. Cuz if we just call people a bully mm-hmm. <Affirmative> or if we just say we’re bullying, I always say, what does that mean? Because if, if you’re telling me, oh, she’s bullying me, I don’t really know how to address that, do I? Right? But if I say, when I’m handing off a patient to this person and they refuse to take reports from me, or they leave a room a mess for me and I have to clean it up, or they yell at me in front of patients, now that’s something I can address. But when you say bullying me or you’re a bully, that’s not helpful. And what it does is just keeps it perpetuating over and over again. So, we gotta get crystal clear on what the behavior is because we can address a behavior. You can’t address a bully.

Joe:
Right. And there’s this idea too, that if we keep, if we keep naming this, if we keep labeling it in this way, then we don’t get to have a conversation with people about resilience. We don’t get to have a conversation with people about sorting through things in an emotionally intelligent way. Right. Not everything is bullying. Sometimes people are j just had a conversation that didn’t feel good. Right. Right. And they need to walk away and do some examination of themselves around that as well. Exactly. alright, so I like to ask this at the end of some interviews and conversations. What did I not think to ask you about, Renee? Is there anything else you wanna share with our attendees today?

Renee:
Yes. one of the common mistakes that leaders make too, and I’ll, I’ll throw this in there, is that they think that just having one conversation with an employee solves the problem. And yeah, I, I hear it all the time. A leader finally gets up the courage to have the honest conversation with their, you know, most toxic employee and they’re like, oh, I did it. I, I talked to that employee, I’m done. I, you know, I never have to go through that again. Wrong. You need to keep having that conversation and say to that employee, and we’re gonna meet next week, like after I’ve done the whole, can I count on you? We’re gonna meet next week and the week after. So, one conversation does not change behavior, unfortunately. I wish it did.

Joe:
Okay. Renee, where can our attendees go to, to follow you, to keep in touch with you or to learn how to work more directly with you?

Renee:
Yeah, super easy. Just go to healthyworkforceinstitute.com. And we have a plethora of resources. I am a big blogger. I have numerous articles under the resource section if on my homepage, if you scroll down to the bottom, we have a, a brand-new resource called Eight Ways to Stop Unprofessional Conduct with a ton of scripts in there for people. It’s free, they can download it. So yeah, just to hop on my website and check it out.

Joe:
And everybody can go back to their teams and start by having a conversation about what bullying is and what it isn’t. There’s a target. It has to be harmful; it has to be repeated. And maybe even if we do just that, we can cut down on some of that overlay labeling and that harmful dismissing of, of how people are showing up.

Renee:
Yep. Absolutely.

Joe:
Well, Renee, thank you so much for being here today. It’s been an absolute pleasure and I hope we get to have you back again at one of these soon.

Renee:
Yay. Thanks for having me, Joe. Bye, everyone.

Joe:
So, there you have it friends. That interview with Dr. Renee Thompson on Bullying and Incivility is still one of my favorite interviews I’ve ever done. And oh, by the way, if you wanna make sure that you get pre-sale, 50% off tickets to our next BossBetter Virtual Summit, so that you can be a party to those conversations and those experts live when we share them with the world. Then you’re gonna wanna text the word BossHero to 6 6 8 6 6. That’s BossHero, all one word to 6 6 8 6 6 twice a month I publish my BossBetter Email Newsletter and we share lots of articles and tips and tricks, and insights on how to boss better. And those VIP tickets go first to the subscribers to that email. So just text BossHero to 6 6 8 6 6, and you will not miss the next announcement for our next BossBetter Virtual Summit. In the meantime, thanks for listening this week. We’ll see you next time.

Jamie:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from Better Bosses. Visit joemull.com today.