87. Top Performer Secretly Job Searching + The Reward of More Work

Transcript – Episode 87: Top Performer Secretly Job Searching + The Reward of More Work

Joe:
You just found out your rockstar, superstar, top performer at work is secretly job searching. Why? What happened? Do you say something? Plus, are you properly framing the reward of more work? That’s what’s ahead now on Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. The show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Welcome back, BossHeroes. Thank you for joining us on Apple Podcasts, or on Spotify, or on Amazon Music, or Google Podcast, or wherever you’re joining us from. If you’re watching on the BossBetter YouTube channel. Hello, we’re waving to you. We thank you for making us a part of your weekly routines. Wherever you are listening from here on our show, every week we endeavor to give you a dose of advice, humor, and encouragement to help you create the conditions at work for people to thrive. I am lucky to be joined each week by my co-host, executive coach, HR advisor, and Dragon Slayer, Suzanne Malausky. Hey Suzanne.

Suzanne:
Hey Joe. So, you picked Dragon Slayer, did you this week?

Joe:
I don’t know why that popped into my head when we were… when I was writing this out, but I was like, oh, that’s fun. Let’s see what she says about that.

Suzanne:
Yeah, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t mind that. Uh, we are a family of fans of The Game of Thrones. So, when you said dragon and slayer, I immediately thought of that and this really cool sweatshirt I have. I had at the time. I think I got rid of it. It was kind of, you know, a short-term thing. It was cool at the moment and then that moment passed, but it said Mother of Dragons.

Joe:
Uh-huh

Suzanne:
I thought it was kind of cool.

Joe:
And you actually texted me this picture. Am I allowed to show it to our YouTube people? Okay, here we go. Mother of Dragons shirt. If you’re watching on YouTube, there’s Suzanne and her Mother of Dragons shirt. Very, very, um, very fun though, very pop culture relevant at the time.

Suzanne:
I, yes, I try to have some, some hipness, a little bit spattered, you know, in and out just so my children will talk to me. I think I have something to offer, but yes,

Joe:
Every once in a while. Yeah, no worries,

Suzanne:
<laugh>.

Joe:
Well, I love our first topic for today. I don’t love it when it happens to people, but I love it because this is a very real-world situation that I think a lot of leaders have found themselves in at one point or another where there’s somebody on the team that you have a high regard for, or that you know is an integral member of the team who somehow you hear, you find out that they went and interviewed for a job or they’re considering an offer or they just started looking around. Uh, and I think this is anxiety-producing for a lot of leaders. There’s a lot of angst that can come up around this and what should I do? How do I respond? Do I say anything at all? So, I thought we would unpack that a little bit on today’s show. Suzanne, has this happened to you?

Suzanne:
Um, yes it did, and I’m not sure I handled it appropriately. Um, so those are the lessons we get to learn from in life as well. Um, so a couple of thoughts. I have the first thing that came to mind when you introduced this, even when you said at the beginning … and the word “secretly” job searching. Yeah. And that word secret bothers me. You know, I learned and believed from my heart that I do not need to make any decisions in my life or form any opinions or change my approach to things based on gossip.

Joe:
Right.

Suzanne:
So, the first thing I wanna do is really get to the truth. This rumor or fact now that might not come along, you know, easily it, and not, I’m not saying go hire a, you know, private detective and I’m not saying, you know, accost this person in the hall hallway and say, what’s up? You looking for a job?

Joe:
Yeah. <laugh>.

Suzanne:
Right? That’s not the way you’d wanna handle it. Um, I can, you

Joe:
Was like your young bro supervisor, like right, <laugh>,

Suzanne:
What’d ya doing to me, man, you gonna leave the team <laugh>? Yeah. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do that. I kind of went the other way. I had this “so and so is looking for a job”. I’m like, I gave it some thought, and I thought I had had good career discussions with this person. He had expressed that he was looking for an opportunity to get promoted. I had laid out what I believed needed to be done and the ways that he could show up that would get him down that path. So, I kind of knew it was coming and he played the little game of I’m going to resign and then get a counteroffer.

Joe:
Interesting.

Suzanne:
So, unfortunately — fortunately he called, I was in the car, he called and said, hey, I received, um, an offer for another job. Um, I think I’m gonna take it. And I said, oh, are you resigning? And he said, yes. I’m like, well, I wish you all the best.

Joe:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Suzanne:
<laugh>. It’s like, see ya. Because there was part of that. I could have handled it better, don’t get me wrong. It was … felt little, felt kind of nice in the moment saying that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I felt it was coming. 

Joe:
You felt burned.

Suzanne:
I felt burned. Yeah. And I felt everyone’s talking about it, it’s cuz I heard it on the street. I didn’t like that. It felt like I couldn’t, who could you trust? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, he obviously couldn’t trust the people that he told. If it got back to me, I don’t like that stuff. It does not sit with me well. So, I was better off just move along. Um, and did he.

Joe:
Did it send a message that he didn’t trust you because he didn’t talk openly to you about it? Is that what was happening in, in between your ears?

Suzanne:
That that’s how it felt too? Because we’ve had these career discussions and I really hadn’t seen him step up with these specific things. But in reflection, you know, did we co-create that plan? Did I truly understand what he wanted? I don’t know, but I, I knew I did not, I don’t need this to remain. We’ll find somebody else with that skill set. Yeah. So that might have been a little harsh, but that’s how I’d prepped for it. So, so how can we do this in a little bit more, more professional maybe, uh, compassionate way? Um, you know, is, have the conversations really look at the relationship you have with them. A person doesn’t take the truth for the gospel or the rumor for the gospel, right? Just say, hey, you know, we’re really working on retention here. It’s why’s important to me that we build a team that is strong, that is open, that we can trust. And if there’s something I can do or anything that’s concerning you about your job, let’s have that conversation. Yeah.

Suzanne:
Um, that’s all, that’s all you do. You open up the opportunity. You don’t accuse, you don’t ignore it. You don’t act as if you know something you don’t know. I mean, that has to come from the heart. Uh, because people look for jobs and don’t get them. People look for jobs and realize they like where they are. So, you are not necessarily, this person’s not near the finish line where they’re about to walk out the door. You have no idea where they might be in a process. So just try to keep building that open dialogue, that trust, that sense of commitment. And I don’t expect my employees always to tell me how their job search is going. If they are searching, that’s awkward too, right, Joe. Right. Do I really need to know? I need to know there’s something I can do better, but I don’t think I’d expect all employees to tell me every time they looked a job opening or applied for something.

Joe:
Not only do you not need to know, but you have no right to know.

Suzanne:
No, it’s none of my business.

Joe:
I love that the first thing you called out at the beginning was that word “secretly” because I was very intentional in using that word in the opening. Not because it’s true, but because that’s how it feels, right? When you’re the manager and it, and you know, I’m especially talking about circumstances where it has felt like we’ve had a really open line of communication and a really strong bond of trust and mutual respect from boss to direct report. And all of a sudden, I hear about this, or I catch wind of it. And so just like with the person that you described, it almost feels like a violation. Why? What did, yeah. Why doesn’t this person trust me? I thought like, did I misunderstand our relationship? I would think this was something they know they could come and talk to me about. But here’s the deal.

Joe:
Until we give employees guaranteed employment contracts, they owe us no explanation whatsoever about any shopping they do for future opportunities or ways to improve their station, ways to grow their career trajectory. There is no obligation to share, to share that. I, I think that that is really important to take away. Um, because this is where we continue to at times treat people like a commodity instead of like human beings. And we are just not entitled to know everything. And in terms of them thinking about what they might wanna do when they’re not working for us anymore, they don’t owe us much until we do those guaranteed contracts. So, I’m of the mind, Suzanne, that there’s really no right answer here. This is complicated. Um, it’s easy to say, is this a relationship failure? And, and of course not. Maybe that person is not telling you right away because it might be too hard for them to tell you because they actually so value the relationship they have with you. Um, if I ask them about it, am I ratting someone else out? Right? Because they maybe confided in someone else and that person came to me and said, hey, I heard so and so’s looking and now I’m gonna end up, you know, doing them dirty because I went back and, and you know, brought it up. Um, exactly. There’s a lot, lot of complexity to this. And so, I think one option is that you don’t address it. I think one option is you just see how things go. Uh, knowing that if there’s a change on the horizon, they’re gonna have to come and tell you about it eventually. Um, on the other end though, you know, are we doing regular check-ins with this person? Um, and they might just need a door to walk through, right? If you sit down with this person and say, hey, last couple times we’ve met, we’ve done a lot of project updates and housekeeping and nuts and bolts stuff around the work.

Joe:
And it’s just been a little while since I’ve checked in with you on some of the bigger-picture stuff. How are you, how does this job fitting into your life? Are we still on the trajectory that you want to be on for your career? Are there things you need that you’re not getting? Let let’s, let’s get into some of that and make sure we do that regularly. And that might just be the door they need where you haven’t asked them about a job search, but you’ve checked in with them on the bigger picture and they walk through it and say, you know, my brother-in-law sent me this job the other day and I was tempted and I’m thinking about it. And you know, there are ways to maybe spark that conversation.

Suzanne:
Yeah. Don’t feed the rumor mill, don’t make it worse.

Joe:
Right?

Suzanne:
Right.

Joe:
I think one other thing you can do, Suzanne, is if this is somebody that you need to retain, but you, you don’t want to try to go right at the, hey, I heard you were job searching. What’s the update? <laugh>? You might just need to give them a promotion, right? This might be where you go to the people above you and you say, hey, I’ve got one or two people that we just cannot afford to lose and I’d like to be able to go and, and I’ve heard that they are maybe considering an exit and so I need to be able to go to them and try to sweeten the deal in some way. What are my options here? What, what, what do I have? What can you give me that I can take to these folks? And then maybe you sit down with that person, and you say, hey listen, this is probably overdue, but I want you to know how valued you are here. We’ve got a couple things we’re gonna do for you just to make sure, uh, that we’re able to retain you cuz you’re of, of high value to us her. Um, and you know, that might be the path, or if nothing else, Suzanne, if we hear that somebody is looking around for an exit, maybe we say nothing. Maybe we do nothing, but we just quietly prepare for that departure. So, I don’t think there’s any right answer here.

Suzanne:
I agree. I agree. You gave very viable options and um, as bosses, we do have to be prepared. Change is gonna come, you know, they may, they may also, this happens when people post for other jobs within your organization, right? Yep. Um, so how can you be an advocate for their career no matter where it goes if you build that right relationship? Or how can you be a silent partner? <laugh>, right? Yes. When, when it doesn’t need to be talked about. So great.

Joe:
That actually reminds me of something that, uh, needs to be said out loud to leaders again and again, which is that there really should never be a circumstance where you sabotage someone’s next step. I can’t tell you the number of times I have talked to employees who applied for and were offered a, a new role inside of the same organization, only to have their boss or their department head call that department and say, you know, I just can’t afford to lose that person right now.  Or they get called for a reference. And in order to hold onto this person for their upcoming busy period, they gave them a so-so referral. And in either case, let me tell you, there is no coming back from that. You have prioritized them as a commodity over them as a human being with new goals and financial stress and aspirations. You have decided that your needs and the tasks and duties that are sitting in front of you at the moment are more important than their career, their livelihood, and their freedom of choice. It is an utter dismantling of their humanity. So, BossHeroes do not do this. If somebody has been offered a new opportunity, don’t shut it down. Let them go. I feel like I did a little stop it there. That could have been Stop It segment. It was just, it just kind of poured out of me. <laugh>.

Joe:
Well folks, you can get all of that rant this, and more by subscribing to our twice-a-month BossBetter email newsletter. All you have to do is text the word BossHero to 6 6 8 6 6. That’s BossHero, all one word. Text it to 6, 6, 8 6. And you’re gonna get our twice-a-month BossBetter Email Newsletter. That’s where you find out everything that’s going on over here. That’s how we keep in touch, that’s how we share information about upcoming events. Uh, and we just pour a lot of, uh, resources, information, and motivation into our community of boss heroes. So, if you wanna be on that list, text BossHero to 6 6 8 6 6.

Joe:
All right. We are now arriving at the Camaraderie Question of the Week. Bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why every week here on the show, we give you a question that you can use to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. And this question is appropriate, Suzanne, because we’ve entered this corridor now for the, uh, the, the main kind of holidays of Thanksgiving and Hanukkah and Christmas and Kwanza. We’ve got this group of holidays that are kind of all bunched together going into the new year. So, whether you celebrate any of those holidays, all of those holidays or a different holiday that I didn’t mention this question is for you. What is your favorite childhood memory from the holidays? Where would you like to start?

Suzanne:
Well, Joe, I think I have some great ones, but I would be, wouldn’t mind if you went first on this one. I’d like to hear your answer.

Joe:
Okay.

Suzanne:
If you don’t mind.

Joe:
Well, I no, no, no. I, it’s funny, I have all kinds of amazing, wonderful memories from the holidays, and I realize that I, I didn’t have one that I wanted to pick. What I keep coming back to when I think about this question though, is I have strong feelings associated with various kinds of decorations or experiences decorating. Okay. Okay. Um, so I have kind of a fun story about this. When I think about decorating for Christmas, growing up, we always had this big plastic light-up Santa Claus, that we would put next to our front door growing up. We had it for as long as I can remember. We had this plastic, it got faded, right? Cuz, it goes outside every year. It sits out there for the winter. And so, it used to be red is not kind of dull, right? Yeah. And I remember being little and every time we’d come home from someplace, we would say hi to the light-up Santa and we would go in the house and that was the big kind of outdoor Christmas decoration for years.

Joe:
And then like my parents got divorced and then we, you know, we lived in different parts of the state and at some point, that Santa disappeared, it went away. And every once in a while, I will see some version of that old plastic Santa at somebody’s house. And I’ll be like, oh, that reminds me of the one that I saw when I was a kid. So, here’s the crazy part of this. Last year in a summer month, I think it was May or June or July, my wife and I ran out to this big antique indoor flea marketplace here in Western Pennsylvania. And we were walking around, and this was this big underground level and there it was this exact same big plastic Santa that we grew up with. And I went, oh my God. I was just knocked out by the fact that this thing was in front of me.

Joe:
And I said, I have to have it. And it had, I think it had like $50 on it because it was some of these really old decorations command a lot of money nowadays. But there was only one problem. There was a giant hole, there was a giant hole in his leg. And so, I, his leg in his leg, like, yeah, Santa had some, some issues going on with his leg there. So, I, long story short, too late <laugh>, I decided not to get it cuz I just couldn’t bring myself to spend $50 on something that was broken. And then I, like, I didn’t want the big broken Santa in front of my house and then have people drive by and be like, hey, look at the broken Santa like that. That’s not me. I don’t want the broken Santa. We walked upstairs and around the bend and wouldn’t you know it, there was another one. They had two. What are the odds? This one didn’t have a hole on it, hole in it. I bought it and very soon I’m going to put it out in front of my house for the first time and my kids are gonna get to have the exact same Santa thing that I had growing up. And I think that is super cool. And this answer turned out to be way longer than I thought it was gonna be.

Suzanne:
<laugh>. That’s okay. Now how much did you have to pay for that one?

Joe:
That was $50 also. Yeah, they had $50 on each of them. And so, the one that didn’t have a hole in it was the same price as the one it did.

Suzanne:
For Heaven’s sake. Okay. Yeah, that’s a, I love that. And I can’t wait to see, can’t wait to see a picture of it.

Joe:
I have to share a picture. Yeah, absolutely. So, I’m sorry I went on and on. Geez. What’s your favorite childhood memory from the home?

Suzanne:
That’s great. I’ll try to make up for it, Joe. And, um, so same thing. Lots, lots of all, when I think back, and they’re all warm and fuzzy feelings and very, you know, all the traditions that we had… My sister and I were on the third floor. My brother was on the second floor with my parents. And every Christmas morning we had to be dressed. Why? I have no idea. <laugh>. We had to be dressed and then we were not allowed to go downstairs until dad said so. Oh yeah. So, we would sit at the top of the stairs on the second floor, and dad, you know, he, well, I don’t know what he, he didn’t shave, so I don’t know what he was doing in there. Whistling and humming in the bathroom forever and then finally like stretching out the kitchen, right? Like giggling at himself. Um, this is, this is probably the one time of the year he felt he still had control of us, right?

Joe:
<laugh>.

Suzanne:
And so, I remember we were probably, and we’re real close in age, so I’m gonna say we were 18, 19, and 20 Joe. And there we are sitting; we don’t really fit on one step anymore. We’re crammed in at the top of the stairs. And I remember looking, I’m like, what are we doing?

Suzanne:
And it was that coming of age, like how hard it was to say, sorry, dad, we’re going downstairs. I still remember how we just kind of laughed at ourselves. And of course, I imagine I was the one that said, watch this!

Joe:
Uh-huh, I’m going down…

Suzanne:

And they followed me. I think I’m making that part up. But I imagine that’s how it would, would go that way. They could blame me, right? But dad, dad…

Joe:
I think that is a very common experience, right? Where the parents make the kids wait to run out and see what’s under the tree. If, if you have a tree. I had that absolutely. They, the parents had to go downstairs, turn on the lights and let the dog out and make the coffee. And guess what? We do that to our kids now. Absolutely. You gotta sit on the step. Go get a cup of coffee… (Suzanne: Do they have to get dressed?) No. Pajamas are fine. We don’t make ’em get dressed. 

Suzanne:
That’s good. Yeah. I don’t know. Dad didn’t want us laying around all day in our pajamas, so my golly, get dressed. So, we, we did. It was awesome.

Joe:
Well, I think you, you landed on an experience that is, that is a shared experience by many listening to this. So good pick and good memory. I love it. And that’s the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe:
All right friends, we’ll listen, this is your last chance to snag half-price tickets to next week’s BossBetter Virtual Summit on Tuesday the 6th. We’ve got a day of incredible sessions, inspiring speakers, and dynamic bite-size learning, all designed to give you a dose of inspiration and education. We’ve got a session on going from Stress to Resilient, a session on coaching scripts for supporting exhausted or burned-out employees. And I’m closing the event with a keynote on Rehumanizing the Workplace to fix work and stop losing employees. So, whether you’re an experienced leader looking to level up a new manager who’s been recently promoted, or you’re somewhere in between, join us on December 6th for an interactive virtual leadership recharge. Just go to bossbettervirtualsummit.com  to grab a ticket. And I’m gonna let you in on a secret even though the VIP pre-sale is over. If you use the code PODCAST at checkout, you might still be able to get that ticket for half price. I hope we see you there. That’s bossbettervirtualsummit.com.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne, I think this is the first Boss Like a Mother since you joined the show. So here comes the theme music. (Music Plays)

Joe:
I mean, that just sets the tone, right?

Suzanne:
Oh, it sure does.

Joe:
I love it. Well, this segment is something that we started when we launched the show, uh, with a very simple premise. And that is that in my day-to-day life as a parent, I constantly experience things that for me have striking similarities with leadership. And so sometimes we will come on the show and, uh, we will share a story about something that happened in the parenting life of me, uh, or it can be of you. And then we will connect it to the work that we do as leaders. And so, I had a situation, uh, um, an interesting, uh, fun kind of, um, circumstance play out last week, uh, that made me think about some conversations that we can improve upon when we work with our direct reports. So, here’s what happened. I and my wife, my wife and I, we got an email from my son, Miles’s Teacher. Miles is in fourth grade, uh, and Miles is in the gifted program.

Joe:
So, he has tested kind of off the charts for a number of things. So, in addition to his regular fourth-grade work, he gets to go to these special programs and do some more advanced work. And so, his teacher emailed us and said, listen, um, these fourth-grade spelling words are just way too easy for him. What I’d like to do is if he’s perfect on the week’s fourth-grade vocabulary, I would like to give him another set of accelerated words. And those words are just to challenge him and they’re not gonna affect his grade. But I think it’s important that, that he not just get to coast and do it the easy stuff all the time. So, we get this email, uh, and I love the teacher for this by the, the way I’m like, yes, give him all the hard words. Thank you for seeing that it comes easily to him. Thank you for caring about pushing him to that next level. Love it. I’m like, let’s do this. But I <laugh> I wrote back to her, and I said all of that. I said, yes, let’s do this. However, I think it’s important that we frame this properly for Miles because what I know about Miles is that he is very good quickly going to work out. The idea that his reward for getting all the regular words right is a second test with harder words and privately at least I think he would come home, and he would complain about that. I think he would say, that’s not fair. Everybody else is doing 10 words. I have to do 20. That stinks just cuz I can do them easy just cuz I can get them more quickly. But I also know that Miles is very competitive if he will turn anything into a game and all he wants to do is win.

Joe:
And so, I wrote back to the teacher, and I said, I love your plan, but I think we need to be intentional about how we frame it for Miles. I think if you tell him these fourth-grade words are usually too easy for you, so I’m gonna start giving you fifth and sixth-grade words because you’ve leveled up. I think he will respond positively to that, almost like in a video game, right? Nobody else is at the level you’re at, you’re at the next level. Um, and she wrote back, and she said, that’s great. Completely agree. Got it. And it worked. It completely worked. And so, it made me think about how often we give people more work without explaining to them in ways that really are about their gifts and their talents and their strengths in a way that that really helps them want to do that extra work, right?

Joe:
We’ve all had a circumstance where we’ve given somebody a promotion and we’ve said, I can’t give you any extra pay, but you’re getting a title bump, but to justify the title bump, I’ve gotta give you all this more work. And, and that just lands awkwardly. You know what I mean? Um, but I think if, if we have a situation where we wanna ask somebody to do something beyond normal of normally what is expected, I think we have to frame it as being in alignment with their gifts or their wants, right? So, sitting down with that person and saying, hey, because you’ve said that in your career long term you’d like to move up to this kind of role. I wanted to talk with you about whether you wanted to take on some of these duties because those are important ways for you to get there.

Joe:
Or you say, right, uh, because you, I would like to ask you to take the lead on this kind of a conversation in team meetings because you are clearly talented at this in a way that many others on the team aren’t. And I think that you’re gonna be a great mentor for people around this stuff. Can I ask you to take some of this on? And so, if we’re gonna give people more work, if we’re gonna ask them to do things that are outside the scope of what is expected, we gotta connect the dots, we gotta create line of sight between that more work and something that’s in it for them. And that story with Miles made me think of that. What say you?

Suzanne:
I agree. I agree. From the flip side, having, um, I was in advanced math and so they put you on the other side of the room. Yeah, right? With some people and you know, working up a sweat slaving away at Algebra, I look around, everyone else is having a good time. Ah, so I quit <laugh>, I don’t wanna do this anymore. I always felt punishment, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’d rather — I’m social, I get joy out of talking to others. So, so I have that little experience. Anything about what was in it for me, why there was a benefit? — It just felt painful and not fun. So, I get that. So, we spoke too, and I think people connecting to the value of the work that, that they bring or the, for counting on that contribution now, it has to be absolutely the truth and genuine. So, we’re not saying we’re gonna whip up some kind of great story to get Bob to do more work, but what, where are, what does he express that he’s looking for? I like what you said. What does he express that he likes to do, or he would like to do more of? There’s an opportunity to reassign work that way. Can you express what those gifts are that you see whether it’s a gift for talking to the customer or his expertise around the particular product, or just with supporting might be really honoring him with that information? Yes. So that he, he knows the why behind it and it doesn’t feel like punishment or a burden.

Joe:
And your point about it being authentic and sincere is absolutely spot on. This is not contrived, right? Because, because people will see through that and it just, it just feels so phony and you actually lose credibility as a boss when you do that. But if you, if you can recall a conversation that you’ve had or, or an aspiration that they’ve had, or you spot a gift that they have and you can connect this to that, then it becomes sincere. Uh, and in and in places where you can give people a choice, you wanna obviously give them a choice, but if they take on that extra work and you can’t reward it with an increase in pay in the moment, at the very least, we have to make sure we, in, we, we reward it with acknowledgment in their annual performance review. As you know, maybe these are tasks above and beyond. Maybe it helps kick them to a merit increase for the year. We still want to pay attention to that along the way in that process too.

Suzanne:
For sure. Absolutely.

Joe:
Well, that is Boss Like a Mother. (Music Plays)

Joe:
All right folks, that’s our show this week. If you like

Suzanne:
Things that make you want, you wanna bang your head.

Joe:
What was that?

Suzanne:
Can I, can I add that? Or things that make you want to bang your head?

Joe:
<laugh>. Right. All right folks, that’s our show this week. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. If you liked what you heard, we will invite you to please share this show with others. If you can hop onto the Facebook, or the LinkedIn, or the Instagram, or wherever you spend time online and tell others to check out the show. That’s how we grow our audience and continue to fulfill our mission of filling workplaces with better bosses. Just direct people to check out bossbetternowpodcast.com or to search for Boss Better Now, wherever they listen to podcasts. In the meantime, thanks for all that you do to take care of so many. We’ll see you next time.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.