104. Why Belonging Matters + Get Employee to Move Faster

Episode 104: Why Belonging Matters + Get Employee to Move Faster (Summary)

One of the biggest reasons employees quit is something that almost no one at your company is talking about. Plus, do you have an employee who you wish had a bit more giddyup in their step? Let’s dive in now on Boss Better Now!

Links:
To learn more about Joe Mull, visit his website ​Joemull.com​.
To learn more about Suzanne Malausky, visit her website Weinspiretalentsolutions.com.
To hear more from Joe Mull visit his YouTube channel​.
To learn how to invite Joe to speak at an event, visit ​Joemull.com/speaking​.
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Email the show at bossbetternow@gmail.com.
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Transcript – Episode 104: Why Belonging Matters + Get Employee to Move Faster

Joe:
One of the biggest reasons employees quit is something that almost no one at your company is talking about. Plus, do you have an employee who you wish had a bit more giddy-up in their step? Let’s dive in now on, Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull & Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Welcome back, BossHeroes. Thank you so much for listening each week, for sharing our episodes, for writing in – sending us your questions, for making this show, your show, the place you come to get a little bit of food for the boss’s soul. We continue to just watch our little podcast here, climb the rankings ladder. And we look at Apple’s management category, right? And under their business heading. And we have been landing pretty consistently in the top 100 of management podcasts on Apple, which puts us in like the top 1% of podcasts on the planet. And so that is amazing. That’s a tribute to all of you. So, applause, applause, applause. I’m sorry if I DJ air-horned in your, in your ear while you were exercising or driving to work. That might have been a little bit over the top, but thank you for supporting the show, and hoping that you continued to join us and get value out of your time spent with us. Suzanne is here, everybody, HR advisor, executive coach, and Nobel Prize winner, Suzanne Malausky is here. Welcome my friend.

Suzanne:
Woohoo. Thank you, Joe. Nobel Prize winner. Could I get one for being a podcast co-host?

Joe:
You know, you figure there’s gotta be a category for that coming soon, right? Nobel Prize in podcasting. That feels legit.

Suzanne:
I think so. Yeah. I had another idea though. I wonder, you know, I’m like, what, what would I want? Or could I, I don’t know, aspire to in a Nobel Prize? And of course, there’s all things like, you know, solving world hunger. Yeah. But I thought poetry, right? So I went, well, let’s get one for poetry, right? Yeah. And then I went even further and I’m like, what if I could get one for writing a Limerick?

Joe:
<Laugh>? Did you bring a Limerick for our show today? No. <laugh>? No. Okay. All right. I thought maybe you did.

Suzanne:
No, no. I, I think the only ones I know aren’t appropriate. <Laugh>. So…

Joe:
<Laugh>, this is a PG-rated family-friendly show, so thank you. 

Suzanne:
Let’s keep it that way, and absolutely. I don’t wanna bring you down, Joe, with my Limerick.

Joe:
It’s okay. I feel like if I was gonna get a Nobel Prize, it would be a Nobel Prize and Dad jokes. I feel like that’s what I’m aspiring to, you know?

Suzanne:
Definitely think there should be some new categories out there.

Joe:
Do you, do you know how to tell that a Dad joke, is a Dad joke?

Suzanne:
Oh, I… no, I… do tell Joe. I don’t know.

Joe:
It’s “a parent”.

Joe:
Thank you. Thank you for coming. Awesome. I appreciate that. And there’s the, there, it’s, it was delayed. Because the joke was, it took some thought. That’s, that’s what it did. Happened. It did.

Joe:
And with that, we have no transition whatsoever to our segment. All right. Well, we actually are gonna talk today about, as I said in the introduction, something that almost no one at your company is talking about. Probably not on the regular, as they say, maybe from time to time unless you’re not experiencing it. And what I’m referring to is belonging. One of the biggest surprises for me while researching Employalty, was all of the data I encountered about belonging and the significant role it plays in why people quit or stay. When you ask leaders why people leave or take a new job, this almost never gets mentioned at least not with this label, right?

Joe:
But belonging is one of the top reasons that people join, stay, and ultimately care and try at work. That’s why it had to get an entire chapter in the book. So, I’m gonna read to you a little excerpt from the book. We’re doing that right now in the run-up to the book’s launch, trying to share a lot of free content and value for our audience. And we found out some really interesting things about belonging. Here goes…

Joe:
Global consulting firm, Deloitte has been conducting and compiling research on human resources, talent, and workplace trends for more than a decade. Theirs is a body of work that represents some of the longest-running and most comprehensive studies on these topics ever conducted. Upon the release of their 2021 Global Human Capital Trends report, one trend stood out more than any other. The influence of belonging at work.

Joe:
Deloitte’s researchers define “belonging” as workers, feeling comfortable at work, including being treated fairly and respected by colleagues feeling connected to the people they work with and the teams they are a part of, and feeling that they contribute to meaningful work outcomes. They describe belonging as one of the most important issues for attracting, retaining, and activating employees in today’s workplace. This is backed up by employee feedback and research across the globe. McKinsey found that a lack of belonging is one of the top three reasons people quit a job post-pandemic with 51% of employees citing it as the primary reason they left nearly as many workers cited the desire to find an environment where they can quote, work with people who trust and care for each other. And quote, as McKinsey put it, employees want stronger relationships, a sense of connection, and to be seen in a global study from Cognizant, 92% of respondents said it was important to feel like you are appreciated for who you are and what you can contribute. And 62% said belonging was more important than salary. Indeed, the big website company that posts jobs all over the world– Indeed’s 2021 work Happiness Score research revealed that belonging is the top driver of well-being for employees and an essential driver of happiness at work, ranking higher than pay. And here’s the thing, belonging just doesn’t just lead people to stay. It’s part of the cocktail of conditions organizations must foster to drive employee engagement and thus higher performance. In 2019, the Harvard Business Review published an article titled The Value of Belonging at Work. The researchers found that just one incident of exclusion can lead to an immediate 25% decline in an individual’s performance on a team project. Yet when companies get belonging, right, workers produce demonstrably better results. In the same study, belonging was linked to a 56% increase in job performance, a 50% drop in turnover risk, and a 75% reduction in sick days.

Joe:
In a separate publication, the 2022 Workplace Belonging Survey, nearly all employees, 88% at the company’s survey, it agreed that a sense of belonging led to higher productivity at work. From a cost perspective, a focus on belonging could result in annual savings of over 52 million for a 10,000-person company. The proliferation of research shows that the impact of, or the absence and the presence of belonging can have on employees. It makes one thing clear that employers of all sizes must attend to belonging to remain viable. Doing so is a foundational component of becoming a destination workplace. All right, so that was a little bit of a long excerpt, but there’s just so much research that constantly comes back to this idea that when people feel included and celebrated, they stay, and they try. And as soon as they don’t have that experience, they are out the door. And that this is one of the top reasons people tell us they quit. And so, Suzanne, I wanna talk a little bit about some of these, this research and this idea, these ideas. How have we seen proof of this in the labor market again and again?

Suzanne:
Well, I think we see it in turnover numbers over and over again. Yeah. we are seeing it in and so if we just look at the numbers, right? The number of job openings, the number of new openings that are out there, people just making choices for their own happiness, their own satisfaction. Not because someone told ’em to leave. They’re like, yeah, this, this isn’t, isn’t a place for me. I wanna go someplace else. So that active movement, I think we see it at the other extreme with employee complaints and lawsuits that, you know, when a company fails to do or does the wrong things to make sure people feel as though they belong, or that they are, you know, part of the, of the fabric of the organization in a good way, then you will see an uptick in formal complaints and even up until including lawsuits.

Joe:
Yes.

Suzanne:
We also see leaders that lose their jobs because they’ve not found the way to get their arms around it or create that environment that is worthy of people’s time, <laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to receive that, or, you know, to get out of bed for, right? Right. So, I think that’s, that’s what I’m thinking when I hear this. I’m sure there are other ways that it’s showing up. What, what else are you seeing? Or what are you thinking?

Joe:
You know, I think about it through the lens of what are the other labels we hear for this, right? When you ask people why they leave, or yes. Or why they joined a new organization. And you know, when I, when I’ve been doing keynotes lately as part of this, this presentation on finding and keeping devoted employees, I will show some jobs data about how many people are switching jobs. And then I will ask the audience, how many of you here know somebody who has switched jobs in the last one or two years? And almost every hand goes up and I, for how many of it of you is it you? And then half the hands go up, <laugh>. And I’ll say, okay, why are people switching? And we get all these answers that come from the audience. And people say, well, I, I wanted to leave. I had a toxic workplace or a toxic environment. Okay. Or, or a dysfunctional team that’s belonging. I’m leaving a bad boss. Right. I, my boss didn’t respect me. That’s part of belonging. People will talk about words like culture or fit. Yeah. That’s belonging. It, it all really comes down to, in inclusion and exclusion, do I feel accepted for who I am. Do I look around and see people like me? Am I celebrated for the contributions I make on the team?

Suzanne:
I see.

Joe:
And so, I, I guess I’m curious, Suzanne, how do we move the needle on this in a positive way? Right? We, we can all agree that belonging is something that we wanna work on, but I think at a surface level, going beyond, you know, like the occasional team builder at the staff meeting <laugh>, right? What, what does it really mean to create a, an experience of belonging for people at work?

Suzanne:
You mean belongings not found at the, at the bottom of the crockpot.

Joe:
<Laugh>, right. At the, yeah. The potluck.

Suzanne:
It’s important though. I, I think, you know, we make, make fun of, make fun of team building and pizza on Fridays. Yeah. It’s still important. I’d say it’s one end of the spectrum. It’s something people do want socialization, you know, be able to be social, to have small talk, to tell a, a bad dad joke. Yep. Or to have an ice-breaking question. It does build a connection and it, it, it feels surfacey, but it’s still important. People still need that. The, the spontaneous kind of thing. And even building that in virtual environment is a challenge and needs to be thought of Yes. And considered clear to the other end. I was, I was comparatively is where someone understands me. They, they express the value of my work, my contributions, my impact to the business. Yes. But I al… the connection goes both ways that I also understand the business enough to know what I’m doing Yeah.

Suzanne:
And how it matters and how it impacts the customer or the bottom line, or the shareholder. I think sharing of knowledge and transparency is also at the other end. It, we can’t not as leaders afford, or as companies afford to think we know what our employees need. Right. We have to go out and have the conversations, the dialogue, be open with all kinds of information. If they’re asking a question about how the business perfor — is performing, tell them, yeah. That’s how they build connection. These are professionals who do want to be part of the solution and the success of the organization. And, and sometimes be managers may fallen the side of just thinking, well, you know, we give them a good environment. They have air conditioning and yeah. You know, we have free pizza on Fridays, and you know, candy in the break room, everyone should be happy.

Joe:
We do a big family summer picnic every year where you could bring your kids. Right. That’s, that’s, it’s…

Suzanne:
Lovely.

Joe:
There’s a place for it. Right? Right. There’s a place for it, but it’s not the fix. Exactly. Yeah. So, when I went deeper on this, in this chapter in the book, I loved this framework that was set up by the researchers at Deloitte who defined belonging. The, in the beginning of that expert, I said it was feeling comfortable at work, it was feeling connected mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to the people they work with mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and feel that they contribute to meaningful work outcomes. And I said, well, really, that’s the map, isn’t it, for the kinds of experiences that we have to create in order for employees to feel belonging. It’s comfortable — connected and contribute. And so, connected. Yeah. The picnics and the potlucks and the thing that’s part of it, but so too is getting to share in the work and getting to understand the different talents and gifts that people bring in.

Joe:
And contribute is really about making sure that people on the team see the other ways and celebrate the unique talents and gifts and skills that people bring. And then that idea of comfortable, I think that’s really what the, one of the most interesting parts, pieces of this for conversation because I wanna encourage the people who are listening to this to resist applying a casual definition to the word comfortable. Comfortable is not about not doing hard things. Comfortable is, in this case, is not about coasting or having it be easy, comfortable is about not experiencing exclusion. It’s not experiencing ostracization. It’s, it’s looking around and seeing people like me. Or if I don’t see people like me, the organization is making a concerted effort to still ensure that I am celebrated and welcomed for who I am and my authentic self. And so, this is the work that organizations are putting in, teams are putting into psychological safety and, and DEIB initiatives which if you didn’t know, that really is the evolution of the, of the acronym now, DEIB, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

Joe:
Because it is such a, a powerful experience for people. I know that one of the things that we wrote about extensively in the book was how for women and people of color who have such different experiences from, from, you know, white men in the majority people who are in some underrepresented, or at times marginalized groups, actually do a lot more homework before they join an organization. They’ll go onto a site like Glassdoor, and they’ll look for reviews written by people who look like or live like them to help them inform their understanding of what they’re getting into if they decide to join that organization. Right. So, all of this sort of goes into the washing machine to influence belonging. And it’s the things that we need to be mindful of as leaders and start to need to attend to as people who create a culture and influence workplaces.

Suzanne:
I agree. And I love it from a holistic perspective of being, we were talking about a DEI and B strategy for an organization that’s strategy. Yeah. So, what’s the organization say? How do we attract talent? How do we build programs that support our philosophy and our values? So, it’s a bigger picture. Then there, there is the leaders who are listening to this podcast who every day go into work or engage with their employees, they have every opportunity to create belonging Yes. From morning till night or night till morning, depending on your shift. Right? Yep. And so, it is simple things by, you know, calling people by name, by watching the dynamics in your team meetings to ensure that everyone has a voice and a chance to be heard and, you know, and be part of the dialogue. And that collaboration is truly what, what it’s meant to be, you know, a chance for everybody to, to play Yeah.

Suzanne:
And figure things out together. Are you mindful and open to opposing points of view? Are you I’ve been dealing with this a lot lately of leaders who are blind and deaf to the performance of their leaders. So, think of leaders of leaders are you paying attention to the next level down if you’re in an organization with hierarchy? Are you looking at the data at the people two levels down to see how their turnover is? Do you know them? Do you understand their work? Are you accessible to them? So just in case they’re le you’re their leader has you snowed <laugh> Yeah. On how well they’re leading that you’re paying attention to the stories and the data that you need to be aware of as a leader throughout all the organization that, that you’re working with. Right. Those, but you have that opportunity, that choice, and frankly, that responsibility to create belonging in all areas from Yeah. You know, from the get.

Joe:
Yeah. And, and doing the meaningful d e I work to understand where we have unconscious bias, where, where we might unknowingly create an environment of exclusion for people. I feel like you did me a big favor there a minute ago. I almost feel like you did it on purpose, which is, you know, you, you use the expression, are we blind and deaf to, and like, let’s acknowledge that that is even an expression that could be exclusive to someone who is in our workplace with a disability or for someone who does have a vision impairment. Right? Right. And so, even those kinds of small micro behaviors that we don’t think about every day Absolutely. Those are a part of a culture of belonging. And so, coming to that kind of work and that training in a way that isn’t dismissive that to recognize that we all have blind spots where we have to kind of tune into and, and to think about how we can show up differently.

Suzanne:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> for sure.

Joe:
All right, folks. I, I also wanna mention, because we didn’t get into it in this segment, but we wrote extensively in this chapter about how remote and hybrid environments especially are, can be challenging around belonging. And that there is a lot of research that tells us for folks who are working from home or who are splitting time between workplaces and working from home, that they are feeling more disconnected. And so how do you, how do you attend to them? And we’ve talked a little bit about that on this podcast before. And, and we have a couple segments on that in past episodes. But we also go a little bit deeper on that in this chapter of the book.

Joe:
But with that Suzanne and I thought it would be fun to share with you a conversation that we had right before we hit record. So, I’m gonna hit this music for a bonus story time segment. So, here’s the story, Suzanne, and I’m gonna kick it over to you friends listening BossHeroes. We <laugh>, we got together here online who were about to start recording, and we started talking about future questions we can answer on the show. And Suzanne said, I got asked a question yesterday that might be fun to discuss. She said she was in a workshop. And go ahead, Suzanne. You tell the story about the question that you got asked yesterday in the workshop.

Suzanne:
Sure, sure. So, I was presenting to a virtual audience across the United States, and someone posted a question in the chat, and it said, Suzanne, what is the one piece of advice that you would give a new manager or leader?

Joe:
And I started cracking up and… because I said, Suzanne, you’re not gonna believe this, but I got the exact same question yesterday also, and it might have been near the exact same moment. Were you doing your workshop in the morning or afternoon?

Suzanne:
I was doing mine in the afternoon.

Joe:
What time, what time of day did this question come? 

Suzanne:
Okay, this question probably came at about 3 45 Eastern standard time.

Joe:
Oh, my goodness. So, I got the question, not only yesterday, but I got the question about 35 minutes before you, so that’s how close this happened. I was doing a phone interview with a reporter in some of the PR that we’re doing for the book, and he’s doing a whole thing about what do leaders of today in the Post-Covid world need to learn. What kind of training is most valuable to them? And so, he, at the very end of the call, he said, all right, one more question. What’s one piece of advice you would give to a new leader? If you could tell him one thing to be successful, what would it be? <Laugh>. So, friends, we were, we were chatting about this. Suzanne told me this story and brought up this question that she got asked. And I just started laughing and I said, Suzanne, I got the exact same question yesterday, and we both gave a three-word answer. And so, Suzanne, why don’t you share your answer to the question that you got in the chat?

Suzanne:
Sure. And I, it was, it was hard because it was the one thing, and I’m like, oh, golly. So, the one thing, my three-word answer, which I of course went on to explain, but my three words were, no, wait. It’s one, it’s two words.

Joe:
It is two words. You’re right. <Laugh>, go ahead.

Suzanne:
<Laugh> Know thyself.

Joe:
Three syllables, it’s the same thing.

Suzanne:
That’s right. Three syllables or know yourself.

Joe:
Yes. Well, I don’t know. Is know thyself, is thyself two words or one word?

Suzanne:
Word –myself a word or two words. Interesting. No, thy…

Joe:
We’re gonna get emails though. I can tell you that.

Suzanne:
<Laugh>. Yeah. Please correct us. Straighten us out. Yes. We don’t know. Yes.

Joe:
So, tell us about “know thyself”. Why was that your answer? Yeah.

Suzanne:
Well, I, so I went on know thyself because I think self-awareness is so important as a manager. As a leader, you’ve got, they’re asking, people are looking for you, for your opinion, for your point of view, for the tone, right? That you set for how you communicate, how you respond to things. So, start with self-knowledge. Know yourself, know your style, know your preferences, your strengths, and know your point of view, because that’s what people are looking for. And it’s not that you always have to have the answer, you don’t. Yeah. but you don’t have to be all-knowing. Don’t fall into that trap as a leader but start with self-knowledge. Because if something goes wrong, if a project is going bad, if a relationship has gone a little sideways, start with the role you’re playing in that and be willing to not beat yourself up, but be honest about how you’re showing up, how it might be helping or hurting, and what you can do as a leader to do something a little bit different to make it better.

Joe:
Yes. I, I hope if you’re listening to this and you’re a new leader, that you flag this episode and you listen back to what she just said, or if you know someone who is stepping into the role or is an early career leader, play that back for them because there’s just so much packed, so much insight packed into what she just said. I also had a three-word answer, or three-syllable answer. Three sy… let’s go with three syllable answers. Okay.

Suzanne:
Three syllables.

Joe:
I like, pretty certain is three syllables. Yes. my answer was, tell the truth. Yes. That the, the number one piece of advice I would give to a new leader is to tell the truth. Don’t go in with swagger. Acting like, you know, don’t be afraid to note to say that you don’t know. A humble leader one who, who operates with the belief that every person on this team knows more about something than I do is going to be far more successful early on. And if you aren’t afraid to be vulnerable, if you aren’t afraid to ask for help, if you aren’t afraid to say, I don’t know. If you aren’t afraid to say what, what are the perspectives or the inputs that other people have around this before I decide you are going to be far more successful? One of the biggest mistakes leaders make in a new role is they walk through the door, and they make change instantly. They say, oh, this, this would work better this way. Before taking any time to learn a little bit about who is who and why things are the way that they are, and before they invite anybody else to buy into the change that they want to make. And so, really from day one, tell the truth. Be honest. Don’t be a know-it-all as you move through those early days of leading. That was my answer, Suzanne.

Suzanne:
I love it. I love it. I was thinking too, don’t tell ’em fall in the trap of telling ’em what you think they wanna hear either. Yes, that’s right. You know, I love the, I don’t know, I’m not sure that’s Yeah. That’s truthful. That, or I’m confused. I need more information, but also like, well, I’m just gonna make something up, or I’m gonna say, cuz I think this will please you. Yes. Right. Be careful with that. They, they want you there because of what you, what you think and what you know, you’ve earned it. Own it. Yes. Don’t fake it. That’s,

Joe:
You know, here’s a note about that though, because confidence is really important. Yeah. Like, you gotta be confident in your, I don’t know if you’re wishy-washy in your, I don’t know, then you send a message of being potentially incompetent. Right. There’s a real fine line here.

Suzanne:
Between Yeah. You don’t run away from the, I don’t know,

Joe:
<Laugh>. Right. But, or, or just

Suzanne:
Going on lean into it,

Joe:
I don’t know. And to constantly feel like you gotta get everybody’s input about every little thing. People do want a leader who has some confidence and some decisiveness around that. But you, but, but there’s, there’s a tone to it, right? There’s a tenor to it that you have to be thoughtful for if you’re constantly hemming and hauling and trying and being indecisive. There’s a difference between being confidently uncertain and seeking out more information and being incompetently unsure. That sends a different kind of message to people.

Suzanne:
Very well put. Absolutely. Yeah. Because they’re, they’ll begin to wonder why you’re there. Right. you’re, you’re, you need to take the time to seek information. You don’t wanna make change. That’s just for change’s sake. And contr…, don’t be the wrong thing, but get informed to get confident, get your point of view and then go,

Joe:
Yeah. You could say, I don’t know, but you can also be confident that we’re gonna figure it out.

Suzanne:
That’s right. Yeah.

Joe:
That’s right. All right. So, I thought that was a fun story.

Suzanne:
That was fun.

Joe:
What a coincidence that we both got that same question in the same afternoon on the same day.

Joe:
All right. Well, that brings us to, the Camaraderie Question of the Week. We could have made, like, what piece of advice would you give to a new boss? The Camaraderie Question of the Week. But that could put some bosses in an awkward position if they didn’t do the things that people wanted them to do. So, we’re gonna go with a different question today. As you may have heard before on this show, bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for, to find things in common with each other. That’s why every week on our show, we give you a question you can use at meetings or one-on-one to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. This week’s question. And believe it or not, I’ve already given my answer subtly and without fanfare. I’m gonna make, I’m gonna connect the dots in just a minute. The question is, Suzanne, name a personality trait in others that makes you feel icky when you encounter it.

Suzanne:
What do you think? Well, I think you should go first since you already kind of Yeah. Okay. Wove it in there. 

Joe:
Alright. I see what you did there.

Suzanne:
It’ll be all right.

Joe:
So, let’s lead with the headline. My answer is know-it-alls people who are know-it-alls right? Especially when you have no business acting like you know it all. And as we were putting this episode together, and I saw this question it reminded me of an experience I had just a few days ago. I got called to jury duty and I had to go sit in a room with a hundred other people from Allegheny County here where Pittsburgh is. And you know, jury duty is a notoriously slow and, and painful process if you’re an impatient person. And what I discovered while I sat there all day, and I did sit there all day, I did not end up getting seated as a juror, which I’m always happy to do my civic duty. I respect the process, but thank God, sure. I did not get seated because my schedule is insane.

 Joe:
And believe it or not, every person around me was an attorney. They were, I mean, not by day. There were plumbers, there were waitresses, there were people who drive buses. There were engineers, there were some really TV people. They were, but on that day, Suzanne, every single one of them was an attorney. And they were all explaining to each other what a waste of taxpayer dollars this was. And these lawyers here aren’t doing anything. And this is a, a loss of waste of time. And it just amazed me, the degree to which the people around me would speak with authority on things about which they couldn’t possibly know anything about. You don’t know what’s happening in the judge’s chamber. You don’t know what’s happening in the hallway. You don’t know why there’s a delay, but to just dismiss the character of the people involved, the integrity of the process, it’s, it’s just such a turnoff to me when I encounter mm-hmm. <Affirmative> know it alls. That’s my answer. Mm.

Suzanne:
Oh yeah, that makes me feel uncomfortable. I’m like, I’m like, yeah. I’m like, yeah, I’m disturbed by that already. I’m glad I wasn’t with you. <Laugh>, I would’ve been making faces. Then they’d be like, you didn’t believe this woman. And all the faces she was making at jury duty, <laugh>, and anyway rolling her eyes all the time. So, mine, you know, came, I think it fits under this whole idea of being comfortable.

Joe:
Right?

Suzanne:
And I can think of people when I, I was growing up like friends of my mom or other adults who did a really great job of in the eye and drawing you in and making you feel comfortable. But when it goes too far, it makes it icky. Like, people touch me when they shouldn’t. Yes. Or they’re looking in your eyes so deep, you’re like, oh my God, it’s a little too much. What are you doing? It’s a little too much intimacy too. Taking too much liberty. Yes. And I don’t think it’s always, they’re just not aware. I mean, it’s, I’m not talking about someone going, doing something wildly inappropriate, I’d punch ’em in the nose. I’m just talking about who, someone’s just like, Ew, you don’t know me that well. Yeah. You cross my boundary, which makes me feel uncomfortable.

Joe:
Yes. And there’s layers to what you just said, right at the one level. There’s, there’s kind of the, the eye contact that lingers too long that that’s like off-putting. Yes. But then you talk, there’s an invasion of personal space here that you just talked about. Yes. Because I’m, I am like that if I know you, I, I am probably fine being touched. I, I’m, I’m a hugger. Right. I’m good with that. If I know you or if you ask Right? I, I’ll do keynote a lot and people will be like, can I give you a hug? And I’m like, absolutely. You know, most of the time I’m completely okay with that. But unwelcome touching, I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, there’s a boundary here. I’m with you on that.

Suzanne:
Yeah. Don’t come up and just rub me on the shoulder. I mean, there’s the normal, oh, that’s weird. I think we; we did the whole campaign with the company I was working with coming back from Covid because it was a fairly huggy organization. You know, the norms and we’re like, oh, these aren’t gonna work. So, we did this whole campaign on what, what symbol, what are we gonna do when we greet each other? And we did Yes. Whole campaign. And we came up with two thumbs up, <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. So, in the morning everyone would come in and be like, yeah…(motions)

Joe:
Yeah.

Suzanne:
It was fun. It was fun. But so, you know, times change, norms change. People’s boundaries change. Yeah. because of what we’ve gone through in the last few years. So, there’s is, I like that idea of permission of assume not, you know? You’re better off not, and, you know, but you, you know, that eye contact is a little bit different sometimes. It’s both. You’re like, you know, yeah. Just a little too intense. I’m like, okay. Yeah. I dunno.

Joe:
I, I was speaking at a conference recently, and in an effort to, to create to acknowledge some different levels of comfort with interaction. Right. This was still in a, a, a, a Covid environment. Right. They had three different ribbons that you could put on your badge. And the red one said, please keep, please give me space. No touch. But don’t worry, this is gonna go bad in a minute. So, the red one said, please give me space. The yellow one said it’s complicated, <laugh>. And then the green one said, let’s get physical. And I was like, oh, wait a minute, <laugh>. Hold on. That’s a, that’s a whole other thing. Right? That is a, this I’m not sure I wanna put a ribbon on. 

Suzanne:
Let’s interpret that.

Joe:
Right. Says, let’s get physical. Hmm. Hmm. I’m not so sure that was the right move. Maybe there’s a better caption.

Suzanne:
Turning. Get inappropriate hugging. Right. Will not be tolerated.

Joe:
Yes. All right, friends. Well, that is the Camaraderie Question of the Week. 

Joe:
All right, friends, don’t forget, on, on Tuesday, April 25th, 2023, a handful of lucky listeners are gonna get to join us for a live Zoom Q and A. That is also gonna be a live recording of an episode of this show, Boss Better Now.  Suzanne and I are going to be in the room together with appropriate touching. And if you’ve ever wanted to ask us questions directly, attend a recording of one of our episodes, or just get a glimpse behind the scenes of how we put this all together, then this is your chance. All you have to do is pre-order two copies of Employalty that’s right. Two, and then send proof of purchase to hello@joemull.com. And that is your entry to be one of 10 VIP invitees to this intimate private recording of our show. I hope you will consider joining us. This is gonna be a ton of fun. And we have just a couple of weeks left, I think like two weeks left to get that entry in. And I hope that you will join us for that.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne, that brings us to Mail Time. John from Kentucky writes in our office, seems to have had a lot of turnover lately with our younger generation. They are lazy, they just don’t have any giddy-up in their step when it comes to their work. How do you fix that, Suzanne, where do you wanna start with John?

Suzanne:
Well, John, I’m sorry about the, the experiences that you’re having. Turnover is costly and unfortunate. So, a couple of things I might suggest just to get us started, is I find by a general rule that to put any group of people into a category and say good or bad things about them isn’t serving anyone well. So, if we say that our younger generation is lazy, that might be a limited mindset that, that I would challenge you and say Yeah. Even though you’ve hired younger people and they’re turning over and you’re like, well, the data supports it, you’re still being quietly unfair to a complete generation of people. Yep. you have hired individuals, right? With skillsets who seemingly wanted to come and work for your team, but something fell flat. Yeah. So back to my advice for new managers know thyself, you know, maybe take a little time to figure out, oh gosh, what have, what have we done perhaps that isn’t set them up for success. Whether it’s how we communicated, connected with them, build expectations, I’m not sure, but maybe a little bit of, of self-reflection in, in that arena might, might be of, of assistance.

Joe:
Indeed. Now, full disclosure, and I don’t think he would mind me telling everybody this. Okay. but John sent this to me on LinkedIn cuz we’re connected on LinkedIn, and we ended up messaging back and forth for a few Oh, good minutes. Oh, great. About this. And so, when he sent this to me, I wrote back to him right away and said, you know what, that’s kind of the story everywhere right now that there’s a lot of turnover, especially among the younger generation. But I went right where you did too, Suzanne. I said, you know what while every organization does occasionally hire somebody that you could label as lazy, we gotta be careful not to, to paint with too broad of a brush. And I kind of talked about how there’s this myth of lazy that constantly gets applied to the generations that come in behind us or that get applied to people when a job isn’t the right fit or when people don’t experience a certain set of conditions at work.

Joe:
And I, I kind of talked about how, you know, if you have somebody who doesn’t have enough giddy-up in their step <laugh> that there are ways to fix that. And it might be that the person needs more structure, right? Maybe they need more timelines and deadlines. Maybe we need to break the work into some smaller pieces or routines until they get a sense of how things are supposed to work. Maybe they need some different kind of feedback. Maybe they need to get some feedback about pace, about how long things take. Maybe there’s a, a coaching conversation that needs to take place where we try to uncover what is standing in the way of this person accelerating the pace of their work or producing in a different kind of manner. That, but really this is two-way communication that needs to take place.

 Joe:
And along the way in that two-way, two-way communication, you may uncover a training or a coaching issue, right? An area where more knowledge or skill development is necessary to help that person move more quickly. And so, if you’ve got somebody with not enough giddy-up in their step, you’ve gotta invest some time and some resources and some conversation in that as needed. Right. Here’s the last thing I told John though. If you do all of this and things don’t improve over time, though, you may just have a competence issue. Right. You may just, it just may be possible Yes. That the person isn’t capable in the areas that the job requires. And then once that’s clear, once you’ve put the time in to give feedback and to coach and to try to provide additional training and resources and create all of the, the pieces and parts that they need to move forward and improve. If they don’t, well then it, it’s probably best at that point to just mm-hmm.  Change their role to one that’s a better fit for them or to set them free.

Suzanne:
Right. I agree. I agree. And it, it could cause you to look at if you find the similarities other than being young Yeah. In the people that came and left, you hired them for a reason. Go back for the reasons why did you think they would do well and where did, where did they miss the mark? Or we missed the mark? So, it could be in your hiring process an opportunity to, to get a little bit better, to find people with a better fit. Or it could be in that onboarding process, like you said, is it competence or confidence? Yep. You know, starting a new job is change and change takes time and change patience and information, and training. So, what could we do differently to support our new hires as they come in? And they may be different from a mindset than older generations, but we need to meet them where we are. We’re not gonna change the generation.

Joe:
Yep. And this actually, we just talked last week at length about strengths and aligning job roles to people’s strengths and not spending a lot of time focusing on the weaknesses and the mediocrity where it doesn’t make sense to do so. So, is this a case maybe where there are some things the person does well and at proper pace and with the right amount of energy versus some other things that they just do more slowly? Is there an opportunity to tweak the role in such a way where they’re asked to do less of the things that take them the longest and more of the things around which they have better pace or in this case, giddy up.

Joe:
All right. Well, John, thank you for the question and thank you for the discussion on LinkedIn. I know you’re a podcast listener, John, so thank you for letting others learn from the conversation that you and I had online. And that is of course, an invitation to all of you to submit your questions to the show as well. We’d love to hear what you’re struggling with, what you’d like advice on. All you have to do is email us at bossbetternow@gmail.com. We’d love your questions and if you send them into us, we may just answer them on a future episode of the show. That’s all for this week. Friends, thank you so much for listening, and thanks for all that you do to care for so many. We’ll see you next week.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses, visit joemull.com today.

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