1. The Noble Pursuit of Bossing

Transcript – Episode #1: The Noble Pursuit of Bossing

Joe:
Well, you found it, the podcast devoted to helping, supporting, and celebrating BossHeroes, just like you. What’s a BossHero? If you care about your people and strive daily, to be better for them, then you are a boss hero. And this show is for you. Welcome home. Let’s get started.

Alyssa:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. Please welcome speaker, author, and recovering HR professional Joe Mull.

Joe:
Hello, friends, and welcome to your weekly dose of advice and encouragement to help you “boss better”. This is a show for smart leaders who care deeply about being a great boss, but don’t always know how. On this show, we believe that the number one job of a leader is to create the conditions for people to thrive. We put people at the center of everything that we do as bosses, and that’s what we’re going to talk about in the long-term future of this show. I am here today with my co-host, professional coach, Alyssa Mullet. Hi Alyssa, how are you?

Alyssa:
Um, peachy. I’m so happy to be here with you, Joe. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Joe:
So exciting, isn’t it, right? After all of this planning, this has been in the works for, I mean, from concept more than a year. And you know, the idea of doing a podcast for me is something I’ve toyed with for almost three years, but then the actual work of putting this together and making it go has been many months in the making. So I’m super excited about it as well.

Alyssa:
Surreal, very surreal. And I’m, I’m thrilled for the work that we’re going to be able to do. What we’re going to be able to communicate – and listening to all of our BossHeroes out there, super, super, excited.

Joe:
Well, why don’t we start with why bosses matter? I think that’s the first thing that on a podcast like this, we should talk about. Much of the work that you and I do is around helping leaders, uh, step into and become better versions of themselves, uh, to more effectively serve people, to more effectively do what we said at the beginning, create the conditions for people to thrive. Why do bosses matter so much?

Alyssa:
Wow, that’s a loaded question, isn’t it? Um, I think that really varies. And I, and I would, one of the things that stuck out for me, what you said about service that’s for me, that’s my ooshy-gushy. That’s my purpose. That’s my place on the earth. That’s what I was put in this place to do – was to serve other people. And as leaders, the ultimate job is service that’s… It is to me. What about you?

Joe:
Well, absolutely. And, and I think about it through the lens of all the social science research, that’s out there about, uh, where commitment comes from in the workplace where employee engagement comes from in the workplace, um, what employees need to be at their best every day. And we know that the single most influential factor in an employee’s commitment and engagement at work is the quality of the relationship they have with their boss. And that person’s ability to create a complex set of conditions for that employee – to meet a complex set of emotional and psychological needs. And anybody listening to this who has ever had a boss knows that to be true, right? If you don’t believe that – Ask yourself this, have you ever worked for a bad boss? If you’ve ever worked for a bad boss, you know, that it can be a soul crushingly, awful experience. Uh, and so we know that bosses matter because at, uh, at a minimum, they are what make things go in terms of employees showing up and giving their effort that we know that 75% of people who leave a job indicate that their boss is part or all of the reason why, uh, the, the famous saying goes that people don’t quit their jobs. They quit their bosses.

Alyssa:
How can we remind those BossHeroes out there right now of how much they matter?

Joe:
You know … go ahead.

Alyssa:
They get reminded for themselves of, because it is slogging through the mud right now. Uh, you know, everybody is just the next day – to the next day, to the next day. And so how do we help them … remind themselves of why they matter … what they’re doing out there matters. So, so much as leaders.

Joe:
I – it’s so important that we talk about leadership and being a boss as a noble pursuit, right? That those who choose to do it are righteous, right? It’s so easy to just worry about yourself. Most people who go to work only have to worry about their work, right? I am responsible for what I am responsible for. I’m responsible for my relationships. I am responsible for my duties, my tasks, the quality of my work, and it begins and ends there. And most people, who aren’t bosses, can go home at the end of the day and leave the rest of that worry and whatnot at work. The moment you accept a leadership role, you are accepting that, that there is a sacrifice to take place, right? That you are now going to not just be allowed to worry about yourself, that you are going to worry about others, that you are going to care for others, that you’re going to take ownership and responsibility for the experience that others have in the workplace.

Joe:
And not only that, you’re willing to raise your hand and say, I am going to stand in front of these people as both an example of how we should do things. How we should show up. How we should be and simultaneously, uh, be their cheerleader. Be their therapist … be, be their, uh, coach, their mentor, their professional development officer. And so, we don’t talk enough about that when it comes to leadership, that that being a boss is a noble pursuit. You know, there are so many professions, uh, in this country that we, we lift up rightfully so on a pedestal as being service-oriented roles, right? We talk about police and fire. And we talk about, um, veterans and we talk about frontline healthcare workers, and all of them deserve all of our respect and admiration for all of the work that they do. I would put leaders – bosses right up there because they don’t get to turn it off at night when they lay their head pillow on their head at night. It’s not just about them anymore. It’s, it’s having accepted that I am going to own and be accountable for and worry about others.

Alyssa:
Wow. How powerful that concept of holding yourself as a leader, as a boss, as noble. I mean, if you can hold that for yourself to say, when you’re in the depths of the treasury, you know, the thousand question of the minutiae, but that’s, you’re in a noble cause … You’re at… Your legacy has the ability to be so impactful because you are a BossHero. You are a noble leader.

Joe:
That’s, that’s going to be the healthy self-talk on the really bad days, right? When strangling isn’t an option and somebody has come to you for the 17th time, just repeat to yourself. I am righteous. I am righteous. It’s a noble pursuit. I am righteous. And you’ll get through that moment. Absolutely. But we have to also remember that there’s more at stake than just what’s in front of me at work. And I think this is a conversation that we have to have more often around leadership as well. If we know that the single most influential factor in the employee experience and in their fulfillment, in their satisfaction and their engagement is the quality of the relationship they have with their direct supervisor – Then it is not a leap of reasoning to suggest that frontline supervisors have perhaps more influence on our society’s mental health and wellbeing.

Joe:
Maybe more than anybody else. Right? Imagine this. Let’s think about this in this way for a second. If work works for everyone, if I go to work as an employee, and I don’t think my job sucks – if I feel valued and fulfilled. If I get to use my talents at work in a way, uh, that that, uh, is really enlightening for me and empowering. And, uh, I’m making this hand gesture with like I’m running in place, but it, it means like my cup is full and I’m really getting a lot out of work. Uh, and I, I go to work and I’m professionally satisfied and fulfilled. Imagine what the rest of my life is going to be like. Right. I heard Brene’ Brown recently said there are, uh, there is nobody who is living a happy and fulfilled life who is miserable at work, right? Work takes up so much of our bandwidth. Now imagine what the impact would be on our health, on our wellness, on our relationships, on our finances, on all of the things in this world that matter if work works for us. And if we know that bosses are what makes work work for us, then bosses are the biggest influence on the overall mental health and wellbeing of our society as a whole. Yeah. I said it.

Alyssa:
Wow. Bosses, make the world go around. Amazing. That is you, you spelled it out. That was so beautiful and, and constructed so well. What stood out for me is what you’re talking about with this quality of the relationship that the boss is totally that’s…that’s… so within their control. There is so much out of our control right now, but that … the quality of the relationship that they get to have with those frontline folks that make the world of work go around, that’s totally within their control. Let’s take a moment to just go, okay, I got control of that right there. Just because there is so much out of our control right now,

Joe:
And the BossHeroes, you know, we use that term and we’re going to continue to use that term to really talk about those folks who care about being a great boss, who show up daily and give it all. They’ve got, they control it because they reach for it. They control it because they say, this is something that I care about and I want to have influence over. Uh, there, there are lots of folks who step into leadership roles. Uh, but I feel like there’s really only three paths, right? People step into a leadership role where they’re now responsible for managing people. And they either decide that they don’t like it. So they wash out, they figure out, Hey, this requires a whole new set of skills and a whole different mindset. And I’m really going to have to acquire, develop some new skills and perspectives and ideas to get good at that.

Joe:
And so they work on it and that’s really what it means to ascend, to leadership. It’s not the title. It’s the fact that I’ve accepted to work on myself, to be good at the managing of people and the supporting of people. And the third option is unfortunately, what happens too much is people step into a management role and they stay stuck in this idea of managing processes. Right? My job is to keep the trains running on time. And so I’m going to sit in my office and I’m going to do reports, uh, and, and handle schedules and all of the, the, the paper and logistics and numbers aspects of the job. And they never take on the people side of being in charge. And so sometimes those folks land in those positions and they stay there for a long time. And boy, they create a lot of suffering, right? Uh, they create a lot of suffering for folks who work for them because they have not. They’ve decided not to reach for the people side of what it is they’re supposed to do.

Alyssa:
That suffering exists in the absence of the care and the cultivation of that commitment, uh, at the helm at the leadership level.

Joe:
So I think one of the things that we are really devoted to in this podcast is to talk about consistently the, the things that bosses need to hear in order to remember that it’s a noble pursuit in order to continue developing the skills and knowledge and self-awareness and relationships. Those are my big four. When I think about how I work with clients to develop leaders, it’s, it’s self-awareness knowledge, skills, and relationships, uh, that we’re going to try to focus on those things in this podcast to help folks boss better. And when we think about the podcast and come up with some ways to do that, we want to have fun. Do you like to have fun, Alyssa?

Alyssa:
I love to have fun, Joe. Love it.

Joe:
We have lots of, of segments planned to, to have fun. I hope. Um, uh, you said earlier, bosses run the world and I feel like we should petition Beyonce for that to be, we go from “Girls, Run the World” to “Bosses Run the World”, and so maybe, if our podcast explodes and takes off, we can get the Beehive and the “BossHive” – maybe we’re the boss hive. (Alyssa: Oh my gosh) to now then go and create the next great Beyonce song, “Bosses Rule the World.”

Alyssa:
Wow. That we’re going to change the world.

Joe:
We are dreaming big here at Boss – Boss Better Now. But one of the segments that I’m really excited about … and I like this segment so much that we’re going to do it in every episode. We’re going to do it every week. Um, this segment is the “Camaraderie Question of the Week.” Now, every week, we are going to share a question you can take to your teams, to huddles, to your Zoom meetings. That will prompt interaction between people. The kind of interaction that leads people to find things in common with each other, bosses build camaraderie on teams, by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. When people find things in common with each other, that have nothing to do with work, they access each other’s humanity. And when we access each other’s humanity, guess what happens? When somebody messes up, when there’s a blunder, or an error, or stress is really high, it’s less likely that we take our stress and strain out on each other. It’s more likely that I look at you and say, “Oh, that’s a good person having a bad day”. And so bosses have to care about camaraderie. And so we’re going to bring a question to every episode that you can turn around and use every week. And before I tell you what our “Camaraderie Question of the Week” is, uh, let me tell you the other reason why we’re doing this.

Joe:
It’s because most of the icebreakers and team builders on the internet, “SUCK”. They’re really awful. I do this…(Alyssa: What do they do, Joe?) They suck. I know that’s not everybody’s favorite word. So maybe I’ll use a different word. Um, they are, are bad. They’re just, I do a lot of staff development work and team facilitation work. And, and, you know, I’m always looking for new ideas. And sometimes I even have days where I’m just tapped out and I’ll think, let me turn to the internet and find another, uh, you know, there are smart people out there on the internet. Um, and let me find some better questions, activities. Let me see what’s out there that maybe I haven’t thought of in a while. No. If you go ahead and Google team builders, Google icebreaker questions, the stuff that comes up, you read it. And I think I would, I wouldn’t ask my wife that question. I would, that would be intrusive. I’m not, I’m not gonna take some of this stuff to my team. Cause if I asked them this question, what we get back will, will not lead to camaraderie. So we are doing this in an effort to create a big database of questions you can take to your team from time to time to prompt camaraderie. So Alyssa, our first “Camaraderie Question of the Week” is this…

Alyssa:
Hooo… I’m so excited

Joe:
In what board game or card game are you nearly unbeatable?

Alyssa:
Oh, wow. Well, here’s the thing. I have a six and a half year old son who won’t let me be unbeatable in anything because he has to be unbeatable in everything. Right. But I think if I would harken back to my before child days, it would be Dutch Blitz. Have you ever heard of Dutch Blitz? (Joe: What is… No. What is Dutch blitz?) Oh my gosh. Maybe it’s just like a Mennonite community thing. Cause that’s how, how I was raised. But, uh, it’s in the Mennonite and the Amish community. It is a fast paced, um, family oriented card game. Like your busily laying down numbers and color coding. And it’s, it’s amazing. Um, my dad’s family used to play this at every huge gathering and there would be tables full of Dutch Blitz cards going on. So Dutch Blitz is my answer. (Joe: And it’s a standard deck of cards?) It is not a standard. No, no. These are Dutch blitz cards. You have to go and actually buy the actual Dutch blitz cards. They have cute little faux Amish characters on them, but

Joe:
That’s interesting. So, so is the game then it exists predominantly in the Amish and Mennonite community?

Alyssa:
Uh, I’m assuming so because I’ve never played it outside of my, my, uh, extended family. So yes. And it would be, uh, confirmed by your look of what the heck is that…I do not know.

Joe:
And you were nearly unbeatable. What made you unbeatable at the game?

Alyssa:
Well, speed is a huge thing. Also, I’m not colorblind. So that was very helpful because it’s also a color coding game. Um, but I think it was honestly the enthusiasm of it was so contagious. Um, it was like the great equalizer adults and kids alike could, you know, it was a mix at each of the tables. And so it felt like you could be a part of something, even whenever you weren’t, you know, their age bracket or anything else. It was like the equalizer.

Joe:
I am so… I learned a new thing today. I’m so excited about that. A game, I’ve never heard of. I love playing games when gathering family together, uh, is and playing board games and card games. I’ve been doing that for as long as I can remember. And so I, I am so excited to potentially seek out, look at a new game. And I really identify with the whole, my child has to win. Right. Um, I will admit though that when I dominate Hungry, Hungry Hippos with my four year old, um, and you know, I know that I should let him win, but listen, the world is tough out there and, and I’m not going to coddle you. Uh, you need to hit the lever harder, faster. You need to move those, those hippo mouths. You need to pull those marbles in. Uh, you need to get that yellow marble. You gotta want it right. You gotta, you gotta want it, but that’s not my answer. That’s not my answer to the question.

Alyssa:
Oh my goodness. What is your answer? Tell me, Oh, tell me, Joe.

Joe:
The, the game in which I am nearly unbeatable and everybody in my family who is listening to this right now knows the answer. Uh it’s Monopoly. (Alyssa: Oh…) That was, that was not a happy, Oh, that was a, you’re not a Monopoly fan.

Alyssa:
I, I, to me, it’s like the greediest person wins. Maybe that’s not. (Joe: That is absolutely true. )

Joe:
And Monopoly is a commitment. Right? Cause you gotta, like, if you’re going to play Monopoly, that’s, that’s an hours long commitment. That’s a, maybe I gotta go to bed and we’d wake up the next day and finish it kind of thing. Um, but I remember even going back since I was like 12, 14 years old playing, um, with my step sisters playing with cousins and whatnot, growing up and, and you’re absolutely right. I was, and am, ruthless. Right. I have family who won’t play with me. I’m really a nice person. If you’re, if we’ve not met I’m I’m, warm-hearted, Alyssa will tell you, but I don’t know why in Monopoly. Um, I want it all. I want to build my empire, um, and take my thimble, my, my character choice, my thimble. Yes. Um, and, and crush anyone that, that I’m playing with. And I have, I have strategies right. To, to do that in the game. I have things I’m trying to do. Um, and, and so whenever we pull monopoly out, I’ll get all excited. I’m like, Oh, we’re gonna play Monopoly. And my kids are really excited for like the first 20 minutes. And then it goes bad from there.

Alyssa:
I feel like there’s a lot to unpack there, Joe. And I’m kind of reeling because I did not see Monopoly as your thing. And so I kind of need to take a step back now. I don’t know… (Joe: Are you reevaluating our partnership, here?) This podcast may need to take a sharp left because knowing that you try to dominate at Monopoly, it, it does do things to my brain. And that’s why…

Joe:
And I should say for the record that I’ve never done, like there are Monopoly tournaments and there’s rankings, you know, I think that’s not what I’m talking about here. Right? I’ve never gone onto the internet and looked up Monopoly Gameplay Strategy. Okay. It’s never been like that.

Alyssa:
Really, let’s Google search history.

Joe:
We should go back and look, cause then I would wonder maybe, maybe I’ll become even more dominant.

Alyssa:
I think that this is why this is an amazing question that folks can ask because I mean, how long we’ve known each other for years and years and years, and I had no concept of your Monopoly prowess.

Joe:
My maniacal viciousness. Yes. My, my desire to conquer the false paper money filled world of real of Atlantic city, real estate, on a board, with a thimble.

Alyssa:
Yes. (Joe: And now, you know.) It’s so poetic.

Joe:
And that is our Camaraderie Question of the Week. All right, Alyssa, since folks have decided to join us for the launch of our Boss Better Now podcast. I think one of the things that we ought to do here in the very first episode is talk about what we want this to be. You and I have had conversations for months about what we want this to be, what we think it could be capable of for an audience. And now that folks are here and now that folks are listening, what do we want this to be? If we were writing our, our Boss Better Now Podcast manifesto, what do we want this podcast to be for our listeners?

Alyssa:
And I think that’s a question for our listeners, right? That to me, this is an act of service to them. How can I feed, how can we feed that boss soul? What nourishes the BossHero? Um, especially right now, um, we need things that are both elevating and tactical and gonna be real. And you do this amazing job of that in your keynotes being up there on the stage and all of that. Now people get to have that in their ears. And so it’s a real, huge invitation to those leaders that this is the opportunity for them to continue that path of growth, to continue to show up, to demonstrate that care and commitment. Um, and it is my pleasure that you have invited me along on this journey to serve that mission. So thank you.

Joe:
So kind, thank you. Uh, you know, part of the format for this podcast, I think was born out of the conversations that you and I have had over the years about this work The number of times that you and I have set up, you know, a quick 15 minute phone call only to be on the phone for 90 minutes and having these incredibly rich discussions where we, we laugh and we sort of get these mental downloads about things related to what people need to be at their best every day in a leadership role. Um, you know, I, I’m, I’m really confident that that’s going to translate here. And it was part of the reason why I invited you to partner with me on this. I knew that I didn’t want the podcast to be, uh, like a lot of podcasts where there’s a different guest, right?Joe has a guest, he interviews the guest and that’s the podcast. I had no interest in that because the rich dialogue that can unfold when people are given a little bit of time and space and have familiarity with each other, um, to really get into some robust conversations, uh, is a really special thing. And to be able to hit record on that and share it with others in service to them, as you said, uh, I think is really special. And I’m really excited about that. I knew that it was important for me to have someone to talk with on this podcast. If it was just me flying solo, I’m a trainer at heart, I would overly script it, right. It would just become a little mini training presentation every week. And I didn’t want it to be that because it is a noble pursuit and we do need to move past just attending to skills and just attending to knowledge, right? We do need to be food for the boss’s soul, right? That’s on our cover art. We do need to remind people that it’s a noble pursuit. And so, I see us making space for that on this podcast to remind folks that you are strong and you are powerful and you show up every day and you, you have survived and, and, uh, overcome so many challenges as a leader and you’re getting better at it. Every single day. People need to hear that they need to be reminded of it. And I, I’m really excited that we’re creating a space here to do that as well.

Alyssa:
Heck yes, people do need to be reminded. You all are awesome. You’re BossHeroes for goodness sake. And I’m, I’m like I said, super excited to be a part of this. It is with complete and utter transparency and honesty that we are not scripting it in terms of it is really challenging for me. And I am way out of my comfort zone. Um, but I have utter and complete trust in you, Joe, and in what we have here. Um, and what, uh, is to come that it’s going to make a real difference for a lot of folks. And so, I will take every ounce of sweat that I put into my office chair here and say that it will all be worth it. I trust that it will be, um, because you all are worth it.

Joe:
That is very lovely of you to say, I thank you so much for that. Um, I, you know, I, and I think about the other conversations that we’ve had about this podcast and what we want it to be. Uh, I know that it’s really important to Alyssa and I, that this podcast, reveres science. You know, in a world where fact and truth and science seem to be up for debate. The, the work that I have done for two decades draws on research, draws on what we can know and prove, you know, we don’t to rack our brains to figure out what people need from their bosses in the workplace. There are piles of social science research, mountains of data, really, really smart, amazing women and men who have been diving into that kind of psychological research, organizational development research, and who continued to publish and write and share with us what we should be doing as leaders to meet people where they are and create those conditions for them to thrive at work. And so this will be a space where we bring that proof and that truth and share it with folks where we, we introduce some of the psychological dynamics I hope of, of what people are wrestling with and what they might need to hear from their boss or get from their boss. Um, I also want to be explicit that this is not a space where we get tangled in knots about the word “boss”, right? There…There’s so much out there. I see posts on LinkedIn every week of someone writing three paragraphs about, you know, boss is bad and leader is good. And why manager is not something you should aspire toward, but leader is a wholesome thing. And, and I just don’t think we have time or space for that conversation. It’s the worst wrong kind of like HR virtue signaling, right? That debate about whether you should be able to use the word “boss” is a distraction. And I think boss is not a dirty word because it’s the boss. It’s the word that people use, right? If I walk into your workplace tomorrow and I say, Hey, which one of the people here is your boss? You’re going to just point to somebody, right? You’re not going to go, Ooh, that’s a really uncomfortable word that we don’t use around here. Um, you know, we get hung up in the semantic arguments about language and, and some of those are valid if we’re talking about diversity and equity and inclusion, but we’re, but boss is a thing, right? If you’re my neighbor and you come to my house and, and I say, how’s your new job? You’re going to say, Oh, it’s pretty good. My next question is going to be, do you like your boss? Not do you like your chief human capital officer? That’s not a thing that people say, okay, so this, this is a place where it’s okay to be a boss. It’s okay to use the word boss and boss is, not a dirty word.

Alyssa:
I love it. You are truly in recovery from being an HR professional

Joe:
And you are as well, right? You’re a recovering HR professional.

Alyssa:
Oh gosh, it’s been like, uh, God, uh, almost a decade. Now that I’m recovering from that. But I was, I was 15 years in. So I think you have to have at least that many years out in order to truly be recovered. I’m not quite sure on it though, but “boss” is not a dirty word. How true.

Joe:
Well, I think we can, we can wrap up there. I think we can end our first episode, uh, on an acknowledgement that boss is not a dirty word. Um, we have so much planned for future episodes folks. This first episode was really just about introducing to you, our ideas of what this podcast could be, uh, and to remind you of why you matter, uh, I’m on a mission to fill workplaces with better bosses. That’s why this show exists. Everyone deserves to work for a great boss and we celebrate folks like you, who aspire to be better. But, we need your help. I hope you’ll take a moment right now to subscribe to our podcast and to leave a rating and a review, be a part of something special by helping your show grow. And I mean that sincerely, this is not our show. This is your show. We’re going to invite you to ask questions, share comments, send in your voice recordings so that we can play them on the air. Uh, we can interact with you. Uh, we’re growing a community of bosses of BossHeroes who will help support and serve one another. Because the work you do is noble. It is righteous. So until next time, thank you for joining us and thank you for all that you do to take care of. So many.

Alyssa:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and associates. Remember commitment comes from better bosses. Visit Joemull.com today.

 

Hello BossHeroes, are you planning a conference, meeting, or event? Why not invite our own Joe Mull to be your keynote speaker? Joe speaks and writes about commitment in the workplace in a way that is funny, powerful, and captivating. He knows that your attendees want rich content that is relevant to them and delivered in a way that is fun, compelling, and useful. Joe’s keynote programs, help leaders say and do new things so they can get better results. If you’re planning a remote event, Joe can beam in from a fully equipped virtual broadcast studio with multiple cameras, professional audio and lighting, and tons of interactive ways to engage participants. He will leave your audience raving about their experience. Oh, and Joe is a Certified Speaking Professional. That’s the highest earned designation in professional speaking that is held by less than 20% of speakers worldwide. The CSP is only awarded to speakers with a proven track record of experience, expertise, education, outstanding client service and ethical behavior. Whether your event is in-person or virtual, your audience doesn’t want another boring 60 minute lecture. They deserve to learn and be inspired by a world-class program from a professional speaker – they simply cannot turn away from. That’s what you get guaranteed from Joe Mull. For more information, visit Joemull.com/speaking to check date availability, or to get a quote, email jamie@joemull.com. That’s J-A-M-I-E@joemull.com.