83. Co-Worker Personality Conflict + Get to the Point

Transcript – Episode 83: Co-Worker Personality Conflict + Get to the Point

Joe:
How do you get two coworkers with wildly different personalities to flex their style and work more successfully together? Plus, I’ll give you a BossScript that’s a polite and effective way to ask people to get to the point. That’s what’s happening now on Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Welcome back, BossHeroes to the show that’s like one-way therapy for bosses everywhere. I mean, of course, I’m not qualified to administer therapy, and obviously what we do here isn’t nearly as helpful or important as actual professional therapy, but nevertheless, we aspire each week to be a source of advice, humor, and encouragement for bosses everywhere. So, if that’s why you’ve joined us, we’re glad you’re here. Please welcome my co-host, executive coach, HR advisor, and poet Suzanne Malausky. Hey, Suzanne.

Suzanne:
Hey Joe. I’m super stoked to be here today and I notice you put poet. I’m not sure I’m so much of a poet, but I do truly respect a good Iambic Pentameter or Heroic Couplet. (Joe: Look at you!) every once in a while. Yeah.

Joe:
Wow. Yes, I remembered learning about those different ideas in like English class in seventh grade. Right? Does that sound about right?

Suzanne:
It does. And that’s when you said poet, that’s what came to mind. Like that’s all I got. Yeah, that’s all I got. And a little, um, poem I wrote about band camp, um, ah, in on my sophomore year. It’s pretty cool, but it’s probably only cool to a small group of people and individuals.

Joe:
So, do you still remember the poem?

Suzanne:
Well, no. (Joe: Oh, okay.) But I did type it out.

Joe:
I see. I see. So, you’ve done, so when we pick this fun little third thing that we’re doing in your introduction Yeah, sometimes it’s true and sometimes it’s just for fun, but like for real today, it’s true. You’re a poet. You…

Suzanne:
Still a little bit of trueness in there. Do you love that?

Joe:
I love it. Well, thank you for playing along. I am so excited about what we’ve got planned for the show today because I feel like so much of it is kind of real-world situational stuff that a lot of our BossHeroes deal with. And we’re starting today with an emailed question we got from Melissa. Melissa writes, “I have two employees. One is an introvert and type A and likes things just so. This person needs to be prepared and is very disrupted by change and distracted easily. I have another employee who is very extroverted. She is loud, energetic, and she doesn’t take direction very well. She’s told me she has a lot of anxiety and I’ve recognized that she needs a different approach over the other employee who is more introverted and more like myself. Anyway, these two butt heads and they don’t pair well with each other, but I need them to work together.

Joe:
How do I get two different people with two different personalities to find common ground? Would it be best to talk to them individually and say, hey, I need you to be mindful of this other person’s needs? Do I ensure that they work together on an activity so they can find some of that common ground with each other? Do I put them both in a room and say, Listen, we need to learn how to get along? How do we overcome these barriers that we encounter with each other? How do I get some communication going, Joe? I think of my dad who raised sheep and would tie the bucks together until they got along. <laugh>, of course, this wouldn’t apply in this situation. Thank you for taking the time to consider my question and I hope that other leaders have encountered this kind of situation.” And that’s signed by Melissa. I loved the sheep reference and I think you’re right. Tying those employees together is probably not a good first step <laugh>. But you know, we got a lot going on here in this situation. Suzanne, where do you wanna start?

Suzanne:
Well, I would like to start with the fact that, you know, with Melissa’s hope that other managers have encountered the same type of situations, and absolutely we could come up with a myriad of examples where those personality or communication styles really cause a gap or, you know, con conflict or even confusion or misunderstanding. So yes, you’re experiencing what every boss experiences (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) and you’re articulating what’s important that they learn how to handle you. You gotta figure out how to do this cuz it’s gonna keep happening. 

Joe:
Yep. Absolutely. This is <laugh>. I think there are probably thousands of fellow bosses who are just nodding along as I read that email.

Suzanne:
Yep, for sure.

Joe:
You know, I think we’re probably gonna end up giving you lots of different kinds of advice here, Melissa. And so, my general disclaimer when we get a question from our listeners, uh, is to tell you that –  A. We obviously don’t have all the information about what’s going on here, so we’re just kind of riffing and responding to some of what we’re picking up and what you’ve asked about. Uh, and the second thing I share with our listeners is, I, I would never suggest that we know what the right answer is. Often when we answer questions like this, it’s about exploring options. I wonder if you tried this, or maybe have you thought about that? Or is this an angle to consider? And so, I wanna put that out there right from the jump so that people are aware of that. In Melissa’s case, it feels to me like she’s probably started trying to fix some of this stuff, but it’s all kind of rolled up in these personality differences.

Joe:
And I, and I think for me, I think Melissa tried to set up in this email that these two are opposites, but for me, some of what she described isn’t opposite, right? It’s, it, it, it might be a little bit of introversion versus extroversion, but you’ve just got some different styles here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, my first piece of advice that I would give Melissa is start small. Get crystal clear on a, a micro behavior or two that you would like to see changed. Is it how one of these people asks the other for support? Is it how one of them demonstrates nonverbals or body language in reaction to the other person rather than trying to, you know, eat the pie all in one bite? You know, let, let’s break it down to something smaller. And I think that’s gonna help Melissa really get clear on what it is that she wants to change.

Joe:
And so that’s part one of my advice. (Suzanne: Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>). Um, before I kick it back to you Suzanne, though, I’m gonna give one other piece that I think is tied to that, if that’s okay with you. (Suzanne: Sure, sure.) So the other I think exercise that you can do here, Melissa, is if you wanna, when we ask you to start small and to think about the very specific behaviors that you wanna change, one activity that can be helpful is for you to just sit down with a piece of paper and brain dump every single thing that each one of these per people does that you struggle with. And then I want you to go back through and I want you to differentiate between what things on this list are quirks of personality versus what things on this list are actually harmful behaviors. They’re things that do harm to cultural morale or communication, things that are quirks of personality. We cross those out cuz that’s not a battle worth fighting. When you circle the things that are harmful, the behaviors that maybe are, are contributing to problems, then you choose your battles based on one or two of those. So that kind of quirks versus behaviors exercise can be helpful.

Suzanne:
I like that advice to Joe because if you’re giving advice, you wanted to be specific and relevant, something that they connect to, like, oh yeah, I remember that meeting. And they can make, talk about their intentions or what they thought or how they read the, the situation because just like you said, you’re not a, a licensed therapist (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>), um, leaders are not licensed, psychologists. So right. You don’t wanna go too deep and dive and make all kinds of assumptions about where you think they’re coming from. You want to identify, isolate that behavior in any conversation you have. Be willing to listen and understand their, their perspective because those differences and styles do show up in what’s important to somebody. You know, you might have somebody where quality and getting things right is the flag they wave, right? So, they enter every conversation with how do I make sure this is perfect? (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) where another person, maybe one of these characters looks at every situation like, Ooh, how can I influence them? Or I wanna make their day or I’m more concerned about the impact I have rather than the what the other person would perceive as the quality of the work. Yes. So really, you know, if you, I think helping isolate those behaviors helps you step back and maybe take, look at it in, in, uh, a better perspective or informed perspective.

Joe:
And here’s what I love about what you just said. It’s a reminder to Melissa not to spend all her energies making up the story about why people show up in this way (Suzanne: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) that what she really needs to focus on is the what, it’s the behavior, not the person, it’s the behavior. It’s the routines, it’s the habits, it’s the patterns that we see these folks engaging in. And so, when we ultimately sit down with one or both of these folks, we are speaking about behavior which we can do in a really objective way that doesn’t trigger defensiveness versus if, if we kind of try to psychoanalyze, well your personality type is X that’s gonna lead you to do this. We can really step in it, can’t we?

Suzanne:
We… we sure could. And you don’t want to be insulting (Suzanne: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) or making assumptions that are offensive to anybody in those situations to, to neutralize it. Like, you know what you said, neutral language, it’s a safe space. I’m not dissing you as a human being. Right. I’m, I’m showing you. And something maybe creating an awareness that you had didn’t have maybe a blind spot that when you show up this way, this is the impact. I think helping people understand the impact of that behavior that you’ve identified is crucial. I also think Melissa has an opportunity to set her expectations around communication. Yeah. So maybe she’s not at the point or pulling him into a room, which is my favorite. Listen, we need to learn how to get along. Uh, it feels like an intervention. I maybe wouldn’t go that far unless you’ve seen conflict. Yeah. Cause they may think they’re getting along and you’re observing something that isn’t in their, uh, realities. So, um, I think being willing to be transparent with your expectations or the cultural expectations. What are the values of your organization that maybe you’re not, how do you connect those behaviors to what’s important to you, but also the organization? So, you’re building context around that. 

Joe:
And those could be individual feedback conversations based on the observations of the leader. Hey, I noticed in this situation you responded this way and I want to encourage you to think differently about that and to engage in these behaviors instead. Because, you know, how you showed up wasn’t in accordance with our values of, of respect or courtesy or, or communication or teamwork, whatever they are. Um, and so I completely agree with you pulling them both in together is ca it can be an appropriate step at a stage of trying to solve the problem, but it’s probably not a good first step. But, you know, let’s talk for a second about what is a good first step, Suzanne? I, one of the first things I thought about when I saw this question is all the work that both you and I have done using various instruments that help team members both develop self-awareness for how their own unique personality and style and preferences influence how they show up. But also giving folks some insight into other people’s preferences mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how they show up and how even though it may be different from me, there is still value and it, and it’s still needed and important. And so, it does feel like maybe there’s an opportunity here for Melissa to do some work around that to give some folks some insight and some vocabulary.

Suzanne:
Oh, I agree. I think that education around it, um, kind of a neutral third-party tool or instrument to, to bring, bring some clarity. So isn’t just Melissa saying so, even though she might do it eloquently and with confidence and all the things, sometimes that third party coming in or that that instrument that’s valid or scientific, um, plays a role. I just got off a coaching call with someone today and we walked through their DISC profiles. So, you know, that’s my favorite. Yeah. Uh, but there are many great instruments out there. Make sure they’re valid (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) and reliable. And I would stay away from the free ones because yes, you don’t get any support and you don’t know, you know, literally what’s behind that other than, you know, clickbait. So, I think education, objectivity, helping people understand, um, self-awareness. I think the golden role or the lesson to learn here is tolerance and respect for other styles.

Joe:
Mm-hmm.

Suzanne:
Um, I learned the hard way that I thought everyone would like me because I’m, you know, I’m enthusiastic and I’m positive and you know, but my style could be off-putting to somebody else who’s more inclined to just gimme the data. I need more analytics, less fluff. Yep. Yep. And really respecting that’s okay. It doesn’t make them bad, it’s just different. And different is not bad. It’s how are you willing to adapt to try to get different results to improve that relationship. That’s the key.

Joe:
Yeah. And I think if Melissa’s in the early stages of trying to solve this, then maybe bringing an instrument or that kind of learning experience to the whole team is a good first step. That way it doesn’t make these two folks feel targeted. I think that can be overwhelming to pull them together. Hey, you two are oil and water. So, complete this 62 question there, 62 question instrument. Uh, and we’re gonna figure out what makes you tick that that’s gonna probably be experienced in an uncomfortable way. But if we pull the team together for a retreat and we do that kind of work and we create some aha moments around people’s own unique style, then Melissa can sit down with those folks a little bit down the line and say, Hey, you know, I, I kept thinking about the two of you and some of the ways in which, you know, you have worked well together, but some of the ways in which you are diametrically incompatible, and I think you’ve probably experienced that. So how are we gonna work through that together? How you work through it.

Joe:
Yeah.

Suzanne:
Yeah. And I think a team after that often is building your rules of engagement. Like maybe we have some discussion on how we deal with disagreements or how we deal with, um, reviewing items for their quality, whatever. Uh, I think that’s cool just to have open dialogue, neutral language to discuss that. And one more thing I wanted to say about what not to do, and you, you almost, you touched on it there, is don’t treat it like so many people have treated the dress code violation. You got everybody in the room and say, we want you all to be reminded of the dress code. Please sign your acknowledgment before you leave the room. You’re all looking around like, well, it’s not me. We all know who it is. So yes, you don’t do the blanket statement where you’re afraid or you’re showing, you know, everyone gets punished for the behaviors of a few. Um, but with DISC it goes deeper. It’s more for true team building and then it gives you that springboard from which to go and have the one-on-one conversations if you need to.

Joe:
Yes. I could tell you stories about watching leaders who were afraid of or made uncomfortable by the conversation that needed to happen with say, two people or even one person. Yes. And so, they go the passive-aggressive route, which is where I’m gonna email the code of conduct to everybody and talk about how upset I was by how you behaved in the meeting. And it’s just this kind of awkward blanket penalization of everybody, um Right. That allows me to avoid an uncomfortable conversation as a supervisor.

Suzanne:
Well, yeah. And your good employees are paranoid and the ones who needed to hear it Yes. It, they… it aired, it was down and it’s right. Entered the inbox. 

Joe:
So, well, let’s give uh, Melissa one more piece of advice. And I think that’s related to if and when the time comes to pull these two people together. Um, because I do think there are times when that’s an important step for a supervisor. If you’ve done some one-on-one feedback and, uh, you’re not seeing some change, we might need to pull these two folks together and set some early ground rules to say, Listen, there’s obviously conflict here. Um, I’m being pulled into it in a third-party kind of way. But you’re both mature adults and I’m very confident that we can find a way to work together. And so, what I wanna do is I wanna open up the lines of communication between the two of you so we can start to figure out a way for us to work well together. And then from there, you can set some ground rules about the kind of communication that you wanna take place.

Joe:
Um, you want to encourage them to talk to each other, not just to talk to me as the person facilitating the meeting. I don’t want them to talk to me. I want them to talk to each other. I don’t want them to use words like you. I want them to frame what they’re saying in terms of I, uh, I want them to try to describe their concerns, uh, around what they experience, not what you do, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and you have to set some ground rules around tone and name calling and just some things that will keep that on even keel. Um, I think that could be a good start. I do think if that doesn’t go well, then a second more direct meeting, I’ve, I have seen supervisors who have done two or three of these meetings and when it doesn’t get fixed, they end up pulling the two people in the room and saying, Listen, you all are gonna have to figure out a way to make this work. Yeah. And, uh, you’re not coming outta here until you do. And so, I’m walking outta the room, stay here. Yep. You, you are gonna report back to me in an hour or seven or whatever it takes to figure out how this is gonna work. (Suzanne: Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>), that can really backfire, but that can work.

Suzanne:
Well, it can, you know, we’re trying to, you know, provide the care and support of professionals (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) who are adults. So even, you know, you’re a parent. I’m a parent, and we think about the times where wait, are we enabling certain behaviors because they always have this channel of to tattle too. Yeah. And in work maybe complain to or vent to which venting’s fine, it’s normal, but as leaders, how do we take that information when he comes to us and turn it back around in, in a constructive way to help them have the conversations, um, and, and work through it. Because that’s what’s gonna be sustainable, right. If they, they break, build that bond and trust between the two of them.

Joe:
Absolutely. And we forget, you know, we forget that most adults in the workplace really don’t know how to give feedback to other adults. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we have to coach them. You know, if you’re planning that meeting where you’re pulling the two of them in together, maybe you sit down with each individually and you say, I’m gonna plan this meeting and I’m gonna ask you to share your concern with this person, and we’re gonna practice that right now so we can make sure that the packaging makes the meeting work. And we coach people on how to both give feedback and receive feedback that can help those meetings to, to be more effective.

Suzanne:
I love that. And I, I think any personality assessment helps you understand, as a leader, how can I put this message or information in a way that’s most likely to be to herd by this person based on their personality? Am I gonna use more fact and reason or am I gonna be more, um, encouraging and more salesy right. In, in, in the idea that I want them to hear more.

Suzanne:
One more thing, Joe. No, Yeah, go ahead. I have one more thing. So, you, you sent me this, you know, as, and this morning as I’m going through my, my morning scroll, right? Yeah. With my coffee, this image popped up and it said, you cannot talk butterfly language with caterpillar people.

Joe:
Oh, Ooh.

Suzanne:
And I’m like, well, it could be taken a lot of ways. There weren’t a lot of comments, but I took it. People are different. They are born as a caterpillar or as a butterfly, or as a puppy dog, or as an eagle, whatever it might be. And we need to find the language that is most likely to resonate with them, especially as leaders, if we take a servant leader approach, that I’m gonna meet them where they are so that they can hear me. Yes. Um, I think that’s important.

Joe:
And maybe that’s really what comes out of any mediation that takes place, which is (Suzanne: mm-hmm. <affirmative>), we have to agree that we’re not gonna require the other person to show up more like us all the time. That’s inauthentic. And it’s not realistic. What, what that conversation is really about is where do I need to become more adaptable but also more tolerant and more understanding and figure out how to work within the, the, the realities of each person’s style and personality. Uh, with the exception of course being, as we said earlier, if there is behavior that is doing harm, then the leader has to step in and engineer that out wherever possible. But if it’s just quirks of personality, if it’s differences, we’ve gotta figure out how to be adaptable and tolerant.

Suzanne:
Absolutely. Good. I think she’s gonna be fine. I think we, you gave her some, we gave her some good advice, but I also, as a farm girl to a farm girl, I know that she’s got the skills to figure this out and the heart and the work ethic.

Joe:
That’s great. And if none of that happens, then Yeah. Tie them together. No, I’m kidding.

Joe:
All right, friends. Uh, well, if, if you paid attention, what you realize is that this was a question that was submitted by one of our listeners. And you can do the exact same thing if you’re struggling with a situation at work. If there are circumstances you find yourself in and you’re wondering, uh, maybe if I can get some advice on this, we love those kinds of questions. You can email the show at bossbetternow@gmail.com. That’s bossbetternow@gmail.com. Send us your boss question and we might answer it live here on the show.

Joe:
All right, friends, that brings us to the Camaraderie Question of the Week. Bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why here on our show every week, we give you a question that you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. I’m kind of shocked that we have not done this question on the show before, Suzanne. Obviously, we’re, we’re like 83 episodes deep into the history of this podcast and we have not asked this question before. Seems like an easy one. And, and it’s one that maybe a lot of teams have already tackled, but if not, here you go. What did you want to be when you were small?

Suzanne:
Well, couple of things I have to offer because, you know, one answer is, you know, boring. So first I…

Joe:
It’s our show. We give as many answers as we want, right?

Suzanne:
And I thought, well, what did I want to be? And I went towards that professional, the goals thing. And, and I’ve got a little one there for you, but honestly, what I remember thinking is, I just wanna be happy.

Joe:
Oh.

Suzanne:
So, for some reason, it was like how, and I wanted, I know I wanted to be around people (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>), but how I wanna be happy. So, when I think about the goals and how I formed my life, it’s, it may feel a little selfish, but you know, you get the better me, the happier I am, the more people, you know, the value I bring to the table. So, (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) keep me happy. But and I think about, I remember pretending to play office. Like I had a desk and a phone. I don’t know what I was doing or producing. There was that, so that some kind of executive or, but as I got older and started to understand what careers were and think beyond things like nurse and teacher and firemen, um, I remember being at a student council event, probably seventh or eighth grade, and this former basketball star, I’m sorry, I don’t remember her name, spoke to us after we had eaten (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) after dinner. And so, I came out of that, I wanna be an after-dinner speaker,

Joe:
<laugh>,

Suzanne:
Which they don’t even use that term anymore. Right. <laugh>. That’s great. So, I wanna be an after-dinner speaker. So, it’s, it’s so funny because then you can watch my career as you know, I’ve been in front of people a lot, um, a lot of time on a mic or in front of a room. So, I see. I seem to have

Joe:
And, and during meals,

Suzanne:
<laugh> That’s right. Eat amongst yourselves and try to listen while I keep talking. Right? Yes. Don’t be distracted. My good words.

Joe:
That’s right. I’m gonna try to speak over the clanging of the silverware.

Suzanne:
Yes, yes,

Joe:
Yes. By the way, little pro tip, for those of you planning meetings or events, no speaker wants to speak during a meal. None of them do. When you say, would it be okay if we, if you spoke while people eat, they’re gonna grin and smile and say, Sure.

Suzanne:
But I charge extra for that

Joe:
<laugh>. Well, the thing is, that’s social time, right? When people eat it is, it is. They wanna chat with each other. They wanna hang out, they wanna catch up. They don’t wanna have to chew quietly so they can hear the speed. It just never works. No. Yeah. No. Well, that’s a cool answer. Thank you for that.

Suzanne:
You’re welcome. My pleasure.

Joe:
All right. I had to think about this one for me. Um, I have very few memories of early childhood. I don’t know if everybody else has this experience, but I feel like before 12 I got nothing. It’s blank <laugh>. I have no recall. Yeah. Um, so here’s what I remember. I remember, uh, my dad served in the army and then he built houses. And I remember not wanting to do those things. I worked for my dad a lot of summers and, and, um, in, on weekends and things like that and learned a lot of things. I’m pretty handy because of that sort of thing. Uh, but it never really appealed to me as a job. I do remember early on friends of mine telling me that I was going to be a rapper.

Joe:
<laugh> true. I, I have friends in like middle school who were like, cuz I would like sing along with the rap music that was on the radio, and I could spit a little bit and they would be like, You’re really good at that. Or I would make up things that rhymed and they were like, oh yeah, you’re gonna make rapper. Um, and then, you know, I got into high school, and I discovered music and theater, and I really kind of fell in love with all of that and wanted to be on stage. Um, but what’s funny is that I had also written down, I played office when I was a kid. <laugh>, I don’t know, maybe that’s like a universal experience. Yeah. We had this basement, my sister and I, we had these old desks down there, so we would set up the desks and my mom brought home a bunch of random office supplies cuz she worked in an insurance agency, and we would set up our desks and, and call and place orders and write receipts. And I remember doing that for hours. And you know what’s funny now is that I’m on a stage and I run an office and so maybe it all sort of

Suzanne:
Melted down. Didn’t manifest itself for you too. Wouldn’t you love to have the video footage of whatever it is we were saying or buying or selling way back then? What were we writing down? I think I had the message book that was in triplicate where you take a message if someone called, I had that from my dad’s office and um, you know, legal pad and stapler and pen. I, Hello. I love pens and pencils. Mom would tell me if we went to Murphy’s Mart, and she lost me. I’m in the stationary section.

Joe:
It’s a very unique affliction, isn’t it? That we love that sort of thing. Yeah. What’s funny is that during the covid quarantine when all the schools shut down in March and April and May of 2020, um, I still went to my office to do some work because it was on a side of the building where nobody else was. And a couple of times I would bring the kids with me cuz they have been stuck at home. And I got the idea at one point cuz I, it’s an office and I have desks and so I set up for them to little work areas so they could play like my sister, and I would play, and I thought, oh, they’re gonna love this. It’s gonna entertain them for hours. No, no. They sat down and they had fun for like 10 minutes and they were like; Can I play on my iPad?

Suzanne:
Yeah.

Joe:
And I’m like, oh man, the screens are rotten.

Suzanne:
That type of play isn’t what it used to be. We had nothing else. Yeah. We had to make work for sure. That’s like bring your kids to work day. I brought my son. It was, gosh, she was probably nine or 10 at the time. And so now if you still ask him what I do for a living, why stand in front of the room, and throw Koosh balls at people? Cause <laugh>, that’s all he can remember. Cause I was doing orientation and I was using Koosh balls when you could spread germs at will, uh, back then. Right. Yeah. Um, and they don’t even make Koosh balls anymore. I don’t think so. Some people might not even know what I’m talking about. But anyway, that’s what he had this visualization. Exactly.

Joe:
I’m exactly what you meant. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> that reminds me of the time that, um, preschool sent me home. You know, they do the little questionnaires where they ask the kids questions, and they write in their answers. Yeah. And one of the questions was, where does your dad work? And the answer was in the dining room.

Joe:
When I was starting my business and was doing work in the dining room. Yeah. So that’s true.

Suzanne:
I love it.

Joe:
That’s a good one. All right.

Suzanne:
Yeah. They never tell people what I did. That’s okay.

Joe:
I love it. Well that yeah, is the camaraderie question of the week.

Joe:
All right, friends. Well, don’t forget, you can get other extra different advice, articles, and resources from me by subscribing to our twice-a-month boss, better email newsletter. Every other Tuesday I send out a short punchy, and if I do say so myself, quite enjoyable email newsletter filled with advice, encouragement, humor, the occasional video links to articles, all in service of helping you boss better. If you wanna make sure you get those, all you have to do is text the word BossHero to 6 6 8 6 6. That’s BossHero. All one word to 6, 6, 8, 6, 6. Don’t worry, we don’t spam you. We never sell our email list. It’s really just another way that we fulfill our mission of filling workplaces with better bosses.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne, that brings us to the final segment of our show this week. We have a BossScript.

Joe:
Suzanne, have you ever had the experience where someone pops into your office or they call you on the phone and they say, I need to tell you something, and that tell you something turns into a lengthy unending monologue? Have you had that experience?

Suzanne:
I sure have. And sometimes even with all the best nonverbal clues, yes. They keep going.

Joe:
Yes, maybe you’ve got a hard stop cuz there’s a meeting coming up or you’re, you’re on a deadline for a project or you’ve got another call that you need to take. Maybe this is a person who is historically known for doing this. Right. There is no 62nd conversation with Phil when Phil pops in the office. Phil is, is delivering a 20-minute silique before he gets to the point. And so, I think this is a shared experience by a lot of people, whether you’re a leader or not. I think we all have somebody in our life like that <laugh>. And I think it could be challenging to figure out a diplomatic way to ask people to get to the point. Well, I had an experience this weekend that to me ended up giving me a kind of boss script that I thought I would share with our audience.

Joe:
I was, uh, just getting out of the shower. This was on a weekend, and we were running 12 different places, right? Two different kids on two different soccer teams, teams. And my daughter’s got her theater thing and then a birthday party that we’re supposed to take her to and we’re just on a clock. And I get outta the shower and um, my wife pops up to the bathroom. She said, hey, I need to tell you something. And I said, Okay. And she kind of launches into this story about this interaction that she had with my son. And, and he did this and then I said that, and then he did this. And I said that <laugh> And I was standing there, I’m not dressed yet, I’m like in the bathroom, I wanna come out and get dressed. This is taking an odd turn in this story.

Joe:
But I didn’t wanna, you know, be disrespectful and be like, Yo babe, can you get to the point? So, I kind of had that moment where I’m like, how do I ask her to skip to the end? And so, I said, hey, can I stop you for a second? And she stopped and I said, I need to get dressed ’cause we gotta be out the door in like two minutes. Can you give me the headline and fill in the rest of the story later? And she went, don’t complain when you see Henry about what he’s wearing because it was a huge production just to get him into that. I said, Got it.

Suzanne:
Perfect.

Joe:
It was perfect. Right. And I don’t, I kind of don’t know where that came from other than like in that moment, I still wanted to be a, a caring partner to my wife. I didn’t wanna be like, oh my God, get to the end. You know, <laugh>, which sometimes is what we’re thinking when Phil pops in the office. Right, right, right. But I really kind of thought that was a neat turn of phrase, hey, can you gimme the headline and then fill in the story a little bit later? And then that little bit of explanation as to why of saying, Yep, you know, I I gotta be in a meeting or I’ve got another call coming in, in like one minute and I care about what you’re telling me, but I just need the Cliff notes version. Have you had successful ways of doing that or have you used other language around that? 

Suzanne:
Again, I, I have, and I love that idea because what you really wanna do is not be dismissive. You want to show empathy that you care. Um, so I like it for two ways. It’s, it’s polite. Right. Can you give me the headline? And for me, I often, I know I’ve done this with my team, can you give me the bottom line? (Suzanne: Uhhuh <affirmative>) which you know, gives me, or the bullet points or get, you know, either way I kind of like yours. I think it’s a little nicer honestly. Mm. But what we’re trying to do is get them, you’re these people who are coming into our offices or into our bathrooms are verbal processors. Right. <laugh>, they are processing out here externally. Yes. Other styles process internally. Um, so they may sit silent on something before they even tell you for a long time cuz they’re trying to find the words. But what it forces, whether it’s the headline or the bottom line Yeah. Let’s speed up that processing. Let’s get it to something that’s palatable and consumable. And of course, I would like to give this thought and come back to you, or we can consider the conversation or even an email. What’s the least I need to know to do something with this? It’s also a good question. I was thinking an email, but I guess it could happen in person. Or what’s…

Joe:
The one thing you need me to know Yes. About this? Yes. Or what’s the one thing you need me to do is sometimes in the script that can be helpful. And I think it’s important to acknowledge that the trust and the respect that you have built over time is going to influence how this lands. (Joe: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>), if you don’t know this person well, you’re gonna have to be careful because this might, this might feel like they’re being dismissed, but if you have not dismissed them previously, if you have, uh, nurtured that relationship. Right. If yes, if you have a little bit of that in place, then I think this can be an effective way to, uh, accelerate the conversation in a way that’s beneficial to everybody. Move it along.

Suzanne:
Involved. Yes. Yes. Because they have a need. You need to recognize it and, uh, address it as best you can in the little time you have left. So, I think that’s spot on, Joe.

Joe:
Fabulous. So, give it a try folks. And I would love to hear if you used it, how it worked or if it didn’t. And that’s our BossScript.

Joe:
All right, folks, that’s our show this week. Thanks for hanging out with us for a little while. And if you liked what you heard, as always, we appreciate your shares, we appreciate you going out into the world and telling other people about the Boss Better Now podcast. So, take this here episode, share it on your Facebook page, on your LinkedIn profile, and encourage other boss heroes of the world to join us each week for Boss Better Now. In the meantime, thanks for being with us, and thanks for all that you do to care for so many.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.