73. Salary is Something + Best Career Advice

Transcript – Episode 73: Salary is Something + Best Career Advice

Opening:
Hey there, BossHeroes. We’re on a short summer break as I finish my next book. The good news is that this gives you the chance to catch up on some of the great episodes we’ve published in the last 18 months, including this one. Enjoy, and I’ll be back with you soon.

Joe:
The slow decaying of your team’s social muscles, profound career advice, and the mic drop moment I had years ago with my very first boss. It starts now, on Boss Better Now.

Alyssa:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. Please welcome speaker, author, and Ohio University Bobcat, Joe Mull.

Joe:
That’s true. Shout out to Athens, Ohio and all of my friends and compadres who are fellow Bobcats. Hello, BossHeroes. Welcome to the show devoted to encouraging and educated boss. Educating bosses. Welcome to the show. Never really is a good sign when you mess up the first welcome line. Welcome to the show devoted to encouraging and educated bosses. I am truly grateful that you are setting aside time to be with us today. And that’s the win right? Showing up, pushing play, doing this small thing to be better. Give yourself a pat on the back right now for being here because you deserve it. We’re gonna start today with a story.

Joe:
Stories are powerful tools for teaching and learning. And so I thought it would be fun from time to time on my podcast to share some of the stories that I use on stage as a keynote speaker that I use in workshops and training with clients around the country. And, uh, this is one of my favorite stories because, uh, we don’t often get that moment where you finally said the perfect thing. You know, when you have, uh, something happened to you and you leave and later you go, Oh, I should’ve said this. I actually got to do that. The very first job I ever had. So this story is called 23 at 23.

Joe:
The first job I had after college was running four apartment complexes filled with college students for a large public university in the Midwest. The school was in a unique situation. They had more freshmen than they had dorm rooms, a lot more like 400 more students than beds. So they decided their only option was to contract with four local apartment complexes surrounding the campus and housing these first year students there. I was hired to manage that program and to try to create an on-campus living experience for these students in off-campus housing, I was given no budget, nine student community assistants to supervise and zero training. And for the next year, I worked 60 to 80 hours per week putting fires out every day. And for one thing, our students, I say again, freshmen were mixed into existing communities. So you can guess how well that went. I spent a lot of weekends managing noise complaints and breaking up underage drinking parties. And Hey, why is there a goat in your bath tub?

Joe:
I managed all the utilities for the individual apartments, had a dozen meetings every week with staff, parents, students, and the apartment management, along with all the project work and the judicial work that came from being on the professional residence life staff. Most days I went from first light to midnight to get it all done. And as compensation, I was given an apartment and an annual salary of $23,000 a year. And for a year I did that job well. That’s what everyone there told me. I got rave reviews from my team, from the apartment ownership. And every once in a while, I’d even get an attaboy from the aging VP who ran our department, a heavily starched white dress shirt and perfect Windsor knot named, Wayne. As the school year came to a close, I started getting nervous. I have submitted my letter indicating that I was planning to return to the position the following year, but then the rumors started.

Joe:
The whispers were that the number of off-campus students, the following year would more than double and the thought of doing again, what I had just finished times two, it was overwhelming. And I confess, I was also really frustrated at the time I had by far the lowest salary of any professional staff member in the department. And I had more students in locations than my peers. And I spent twice as much time at work every week than they did. If my work was going to double, I had two big questions. Am I getting more help? And am I getting more salary? When I couldn’t take it anymore? One spring afternoon around four o’clock. I worked up the courage to ask the VP Wayne, if we could speak for a few minutes in his office. Now I’d only been in there a handful of times. It was a long and cavernous space with a corporate drop ceiling. And those giant fluorescent lights that for years sucked the color out of every chair and person who passed through there. Do you have memories where when you’re sitting at someone’s desk, it seems as if your nose barely clears the top of the desk and that the person behind the desk is peering down at you as if up on high. That is my memory of this conversation. His temples graying, his thick black glasses perched at the end of his nose. He folded his hands and he waited for inexperienced timid unsure me.

Joe:
Though, I had prepared for the conversation. My questions came out as one long run-on sentence.

Joe:
Well, Wayne, as I understand it, my work is going to more than double next year, more students, more staff, more apartments, probably even more hours where I can find them. I wanted to find out whether or not my staff would get bigger and my salary would go up to match the increase in my responsibilities? Wayne had these gray bushy eyebrows that floated up in surprise, and then he suddenly furrowed his brow and his rebuke was calm,… but pointed. Well, the first thing you’ll want to learn is that you don’t come into somebody’s office at four o’clock near the end of the day and ask for something like this.

Joe:
Then, he continued slowly, as if both for emphasis and condescension, “Doesn’t it trouble you that if we give you a raise, you’ll never know if it was based on merit or because you asked?”

Joe:
And All at once there was heat on my face and I felt stupid and stunned and small.

Joe:
My reply, in the moment, was not rooted in confidence or courage. Instead, the words that escaped my lips were just the leaking honesty of the helpless. It doesn’t matter to me. I know I’ve earned it.

Joe:
I don’t remember anything about the conversation after that moment? I know that Wayne dismissed me and I left his office with my tail between my legs confused and unsure and sufficiently scolded. I spent the next few weeks waiting to find out what the plans were for the next year. What my job description would be, what it would say, what my salary would be. A few weeks later, I was summoned back to Wayne’s office and I found myself sitting again at his feet. When he handed me a document. I wanted to get back to you about your job description and salary for next year.”

Joe:
This Is what I had been waiting for. It’s what I had been agonizing over. You see my job description. The first year maxed out at 500 students and a staff of nine with a maximum salary of $25,000. If my new role was to manage 900 students and 22 staff, then HR 101 says the base salary for that role would be at or above the max salary of the previous smaller role. So I was expecting to be offered around 26,000, but I was hoping for a windfall – 28, As soon as the document landed in my hands, I scanned it quickly and sure enough, 900 students, 22 staff to supervise. And when my eyes jumped to the bottom of the page to find the salary, it was there in bold font for the year to come, I would be paid $23,500. My face must have betrayed how crushed I was inside because Wayne leaned forward and said, so I gathered, that’s not what you were expecting. I took a deep breath and willed myself to speak evenly, honestly. Well, I assumed that the max salary of 25,000 listed on the old job description would be the minimum salary for the new role. Since these duties have more than doubled,

Joe:
“Huh? Well, Joe, What’s on paper. Isn’t always reality. Things shift sometimes, but we’re grateful for all that you’ve done. And we really look forward to having you with us for another year.” Our conversation was over.

Joe:
A few weeks later, my best friend, a residence life professional at another public university called with incredible news. Joe. We just had a hall director role come open. It’s on my green. It’s under my boss, and I am sure they will take a look at you. If you want to throw a resume at it. During the interview when I described all that I had been doing for the past year, their jaws hung open. I knew the job was mine If I wanted it and they offered it to me less than 48 hours later after my campus visit – and I accepted it.

Joe:
When I submitted my letter of resignation to the department manager, she made an ominous comment. She said, you know, Wayne’s not going to like this. You signed a letter saying you were planning to come back. And sure enough, the next day as I was passing through the office, Wayne stepped out of his doorway. “Joe, can I speak with you for a few minutes?” I returned to the large cavernous office. “I hear you’re leaving us, but I’m confused. You signed this letter right here, indicating that you would be rejoining us next year. You know, I could call this other university and make an argument out of it. Tell me, tell me why I shouldn’t hold you to this.”

Joe:
I leaned forward and I actually sat tall. And in my memory, the desk is normally sized and we are seated on an equal plane. And what I said to him next was the last thing I ever said to him. “Well Wayne, what’s on paper, isn’t always reality. Sometimes things shift, but I am grateful for all that I’ve learned. And I wish you well for the coming year.” This is the story of my very first experience having a boss. I spent a year feeling like a soul-less commodity, and I was treated like one right up until the moment I left. I think this story offers a lot to unpack. It’s not because I got to have a little bit of a mic drop moment and to throw Wayne’s words back at him, most of the time, those scenarios don’t present themselves. And if they do, throwing someone’s words back at them, isn’t always a good idea. But I think there’s a lot here. And I think it would be an interesting conversation to have. So I’d like to welcome to the show. Uh, my extraordinary co-host, professional coach, Alyssa Mullet. Are you there, Alyssa?

Alyssa:
Oh, I’m here. I got, all the, like all of the goosebumps and all of the feels, Joe. (Joe: From the story?) Yes! From the story. Oh my Gosh.

Joe:
Well, let me turn it over to you – have at it, my friend,

Alyssa:
I look back on that with like this deep sense of yes for you. Right. But also like, there’s this other part of me that like, has this deep amount of empathy for all that year? You don’t get that back. Right? I mean, I think that, that’s one of the things that I struggle with the most in trying to come to terms with some of the professional experiences that I’ve had is this, you don’t get that time back. And most likely, like you said, don’t get the direct, the mic drop moments. Right. Um, and if you do, then maybe you shouldn’t take them because we’re talking about the rest of your life here. Right. But there is this rich sense of all is right in the world and justice in that story, that just speaks so deeply to my soul. And I am like here for it right now.

Joe:
But the justice is, is a now thing right in the moment, like back in the day, I mean, th this was goodness, this was 20 years ago, you know? And so, back then, there wasn’t, there wasn’t this feeling of justice. I don’t remember leaving his office feeling like, yeah, boom. You know, there Was, there was none of that, like eat your words, pal. It was, I was almost afraid. Right. And I, I will fully confess that. I don’t even think he recalled that I was using his words back at him.

Alyssa:
It gives you… Because he had no self-awareness right. Most likely. Right. And, and it’s similar to how you did at the time realize that that was a mic drop moment. You know, that the fear of the unknown of what was next of, you know, what you had just done was overtaking that kind of awareness of that whole situation, but yeah. In a world full of injustice that gave me all the feels right now,

Joe:
You, you were living vicariously through me in, in my own moment of reckoning, in my own moment of justice.

Alyssa:
Heck yes. Many, a daydream that goes along with that. And I’m sure all of our BossHeroes out there who have those stories too have those day dreams of those mic drop moments, that if they could go back in time, what they would do.

Joe:
Right. Well, if there’s anybody listening to our I hhhh, I hope there’s somebody listening to our podcasts, but if there’s anybody listening who has had that kind of moment, not in a gotcha kind of way, not in a, you know, I just wanted to make the person across from me, feel stupid, right? That’s, that’s not the goal, but in a way where, when someone else sets the terms, you’re able to win on their terms. And I think that, that’s what part of this was for me at the time. If you are listening to this podcast and you have a similar story about winning on their terms. We would love to hear that. Tell us that story. Send us an email at bossbetternow@gmail.com or pop open that voice memos app on your phone and tell the story, record it, uh, send us a two minute story and we might play it on the air.

Alyssa:
Oh, that would be so awesome. Please do that folks.

Joe:
Do people say on the air? Is that right for podcasts? I mean, it’s not at all, but we might play it on the internet.

Alyssa:
We’ll play it somewhere for goodness sake. Just send it down. We want those juicy things we want to hear from you. That’s how we keep going with this. It’s your show. Remember BossHeroes. We want to hear from you,

Joe:
You know, and here’s the other thing about this story? Almost no experience is all good or all bad. Right? I worked my tail off that first year, but I had immense pride in that. Right. I got to the end of that year, exhausted. And the thought of doing another year like that. Woo. It was, it was a scary thought, but I learned a lot about what I was capable of. I learned a lot about what I had a knack for. Um, you know, I’ve always looked young in every job I’ve had and I have always faced the assumption of incompetence that comes with the appearance of youth. And so to be able to go into an environment where everybody was older and looked older, I mean, and, and, you know, at the time I looked like I was 16 and to be able to prove myself was very rewarding. Uh, I kept in touch with a lot of old colleagues for most of the following year after that. Uh, and they told me often about the shared struggles of the three people that were hired to replace me.

Alyssa:
Wow.

Joe:
I heard over and over again, about the dozens of times in departmental meetings in front of that VP where a senior staff person would say, “Oh, that would have never happened if Joe were still here.” You know? And so there there’s there’s injustice, but there’s also the experience. The learning that comes from the experience, right? I was better at the job that came next because of the job that I did.

Alyssa:
Wow. How true, how true. Those experiences may not break us, but they will make us right. Make us better. Boss better.

Joe:
And I would have continued to kill myself for 28 grand a year. You know, that that’s that’s, I mean, even adjusted for inflation 20 years ago. I was, I was eating, don’t get me wrong. I had the apartment and I had meals, but when you’ve got student loans and you’ve got a car and you liked to put gas in the car like that, it starts to get a little tight. (Alyssa: You know, you were eating…) Ramen, ramen noodles for dinner again. Right? (Alyssa: mmmm yummy.) And I think one of the key lessons that has to be a takeaway is that people just want to matter. And if you treat people as a commodity and you leverage them for the lowest cost possible, they will not stay.

Alyssa:
Yeah. We want to matter. What matters to you, Joe, going forward in how you approached being a boss?

Joe:
You know, I th one of the big takeaways for me from that, I mean, there are so many, but the thing that, that rose to the surface in my mind, but at that question was that salary is not everything, but it’s something. You know, and it’s, and one of the things I’ve learned from a social science perspective is that people’s engagement and commitment is influenced by the perception of equity and adequacy related to their pay. So do I perceive that my pay and benefits are fair and adequate? Those are two different things. A lot of folks listening to this have heard me talk about this in training, right? And when we say that the perception of fairness and adequacy directly influences engagement, that does not mean that more salary and benefits will get you more motivation. That that is not what we’re saying. What we’re saying is that if people perceive that their salary and benefits are unfair or inadequate, then suddenly disengagement starts to creep in, right?

Joe:
And those are the fair and adequate are two different things. Fair is a perception of equity. If I have the perception that the person working next to me, or across from me, with all other things being equal, right? Our experience and our education, et cetera, all of the things being equal. If I have a perception, if, if they, if I have a perception that they get paid more than I do, my disengagement is going to go up. If that isn’t corrected. Adequacy on the other hand is my ability to pay my bills and feed my family. You know, if I find out, think about a member of your team, for the folks who are listening, if there’s a member of your team who makes $18 an hour, and they just find out that their kid needs $4,000 worth of dental work. They might need to take the job across the street for a dollar and a half an hour more and no amount of perks or benefits or the great relationship they have with you or the people that they work with, who they adore might overcome that dollar and a half. So salary is not everything. Once people perceive that their pay and benefits are fair and adequate, it’s off the table as a motivator. The other things that we talk about from a leadership development perspective matter more, but if their perception is it’s unfair or inadequate, then none of the other stuff matters. So salary isn’t everything, but it’s something.

Alyssa:
Yeah, it reminds me of this concept of, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right? And so once that base need, uh, of, um, adequacy and fairness are met, then, then it no longer becomes about that. That it’s, it’s a given, it’s sustained, then all of the other things matter so much more.

Joe:
Absolutely. And there’s actually a couple of really cool graphics on the internet where they’ve taken Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which is often illustrated as a pyramid. And they’ve laid it next to, um, the employee engagement pyramid, right. Which is this kind of structure of the basic things that employees need. Right? Like I need my computer to work and I need an office chair and electricity, you know, and they move up through the things that we need in order to be psychologically fulfilled at work. And when you lay Maslow’s hierarchy of need next to the employee engagement pyramid, they match, they mirror each other in terms of those levels.

Alyssa:
Yeah. I think that that’s a really interesting illustration. Like in today’s environment where everything like it’s in this constant state of change and flux, there are some constants, right? And there are some foundational things that are always going to be there now way in which we, the environment in which we meet those needs may have drastically been changed, shattered, obliterated, all of the things, those things still exist. So if we need to start somewhere, let’s start back there. Let’s let’s know where our needs are. Let’s make sure that we’re meeting those needs for ourselves as bosses and also for our employees.

Joe:
Absolutely. And, and just to, that was a beautiful little bow on it, right there at the end. Um, and, and let me end with this. I don’t blame Wayne. Wayne is not a villain in the story, right? Wayne is a by-product of his environment and his generation, right. He came out of a culture of command and control leadership. Where for decades, people stood in a line and worked in a factory and you were, should be grateful to just have a job. Thank you very much. And everybody got their pay. And if you didn’t like it, well, then go do something else. And that worked for a time when the nature of work, wasn’t maybe as sophisticated in terms of the day-to-day things that people were tackling. Some people tackle as it is now, but if you want your folks to bring their full effort, to be critical thinkers, to embrace the more sophisticated nature of their work than an antiquated command and control approach doesn’t work. Right. And so, you know, Wayne was about to retire. I think he retired about a year after that happened. Um, and it’s a changing of the guard. It’s a changing of an understanding of what moves people in the workplace. So, um, but I, I, yeah, I never saw him again, never talked to him again. Okay.

Alyssa:
Powerful story, Joe, thank you so much for sharing it with me, with our audience. Thank you.

Joe:
Thank you for listening. And I’d love to know what you think. Folks. I’m on Instagram over @joemull77, and also be sure to hop over to our Boss Better Now, podcast page on Facebook, where you can leave comments and ask questions and suggest ideas for the show. You can tell us your own Wayne story, your own mic drop moment story. And please also be sure to subscribe to the podcast, write a review and tell others about our show.

Joe:
Let’s lighten things up a little bit. Shall we? It is time for the Camaraderie Question of the Week. And this actually is kind of themed a little bit here with the story that I just told. Bosses build camaraderie on teams, by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other every week. We give you a question you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie and Alyssa, the question of the week, Camaraderie Question of the Week, is this what the best piece of career advice you’ve ever been given?

Alyssa:
Career advice? Hmm. You know, it’s so easy to go back and go, Oh, all of the things that I wouldn’t want to hear again, or the things that have negatively impacted me – cause that’s our human nature. Right. Um, I think that if I had to pinpoint it to one exclusive thing and it wasn’t by another boss. It was to me and hundreds of other, maybe thousands of other listeners on a podcast. Um, but Robin Sharma said, and he’s the author of the, I think it’s the 5:00 AM club, great book. But he says the door to success does not open outward. And to me, as a leader, as a boss, that no truer words exist. The door to success does not open outward. It’s about going in, what’s in here. How are you going to look and examine and grow that that’s where it’s at.

Joe:
Ooh, that’s, that is that’s deep

Alyssa:
It is deep. You know, I like deep.

Joe:
So, what is, what is the action that you take in the aftermath of hearing that kind of career advice, finding it to be profound, what’s the next right thing to do?

Alyssa:
So for me, whenever I hear that, the way that I internalize it and make it mine is I take a healthy look at, okay. Um, what is it that makes me who I am to these folks, you know, in, in the, in the workplace. So it’s specific to the professional realm. If that’s what we’re going to examine it too. Cause I could go all ooey, gooey wide with it to make it all mushy, squishy, gray, all over my life. You know,

Joe:
If you float too high up into the mist and the vapor I’ll pull you back down.

Alyssa:
The door could be open so wide, Joe. But if I’m, I look at it exclusively for my professional self. I’m going to think, okay, how is it that I’m showing up each day in the workplace, right. When folks look inside that door, when I open it up, what is it that they see? How is it that they are experiencing me? And, and for me to be able to show up from a place of leadership driven values or values based leadership is … that’s where I got to start. That’s where I always got to come back to, what am I doing to make sure that I am authentically upholding my values each and every day to make sure that I can lead the best way I possibly can.

Joe:
Okay. Follow up question. Is that permitted?

Alyssa:
I I’ll allow it.

Joe:
Okay. You said, and I’m sorry if I get the wording wrong here, how do I make sure that I am authentically holding true to my values? And I think I know what you mean by that, but I want to play, I want to ask you about – hold true to my values, because I think for some folks, we go out into the world and into the workplace and we say, this is what’s important to me. This is what matters. This is what I want to be about. And I am going to will that into being in the workplace. And in some ways we end up with these leaders who become stubborn and ineffective, right? So let’s, let’s look at this idea of hold true to our values. How do we do that? And remain adaptable, flexible, responsive, and service-oriented in support of our teams.

Alyssa:
It’s a great question. You know, and, and interestingly enough, for me, I have always had the experience in the inverse of that is to say that I have always given so much, and I know that there’s a lot of you BossHeroes out there that are going to feel this. You give so much that you don’t know where your professional self starts and you end because you’ve allowed it to be who you are as part of your identity. And so there’s no like escaping it, um, which is great and also not so great sometimes. Right? So for me, the way that I experienced that is, is this constant opportunity to balance whether it’s okay, am I creating a boundary for myself or for others? Or is that opening another door? Right? So this rigidity that could be interpreted by, um, setting down those values and only leading from that place. Um, it has to be this thing that swings both sides. It’s gotta be on the, the whole spectrum. The door is maybe it’s a rotating door. I don’t know.

Joe:
Maybe make those little, little shutters at the saloon that flat both ways in the old western movies.

Alyssa:
Yes. That is it. That’s what it is.

Joe:
And, and we should all wear spurs to work.

Alyssa:
Okay. Also true advice. That can’t be your, the best advice that you were ever given that wear spurs to work. So tell me, what is the best advice that you have ever been given?

Joe:
I am…in the aftermath of this really rich, profound, sentence that you dropped on everybody, the path to, what was it, the path to

Alyssa:
The door to success does not…. yes, Does not open outward. Yeah.

Joe:
It’s so deep that I’m almost embarrassed to share mine because it is so stunningly inelegant.

Alyssa:
Come on, Joe. No, you got the, you did the whole like stunningly amazing story at the front end of this. So we will, we will let you slide on eloquence.

Joe:
So then, then my favorite best piece of professional advice I was ever given is —  don’t shit where you eat.

Alyssa:
So true. (Joe: But, it’s so true.)

Joe:
The, um, early in my career, I think it was my second year. There was an administrator where I worked, who was this, this kind of persnickety. I, I have this history early in my career of, of, of working for some crabby old white guys. And they, um, they have their place and their virtues and, but they were challenging in a lot of ways, but this, this gentleman, it wasn’t Wayne, that this other person that I’m thinking about. This was one of those little nuggets that he threw out at somebody like in a hallway that I’ve always remembered. And it’s true. And …”don’t shit where you eat kid”, you know, and I cannot tell you the number of times in my professional career, that, that has come back into my mind when I thought about how I wanted to act or react to the kinds of invitations I would want to accept.

Joe:
I have been a part of a lot of professional organizations where people conference by day and get hammered by night. And, you know, going like the most direct example I can give is this idea that we conference by day. And then at night we go and, um, we live it up at happy hour and we hook up with people who are supposed to be in our professional circles. And you know, what, if that’s a person who has a hiring decision to make about you a couple of years from now, or who is going to hire you for contract work or who has a conversation with somebody else about, Oh, that guy. So, and so he got, you know, he got a little bit out of control at the social hour at the conference the other night. Um, when you do that, you pardon the phrase, you shit where you eat, right? You, you, you soil, the very environment you’re trying to cultivate to be as healthy and successful as you possibly can. Uh, so it’s just one of those throwaway things I heard once. But, but I see it a lot. I see folks who don’t heed that advice too often in the professional world.

Alyssa:
Yeah, it might not be pretty, but that kind of manure doesn’t grow good things from it. And so therefore it is good sage advice.

Joe:
And if you don’t follow it, the crappy things happen. It’s stinks. You’re flushing your career down. I can get back to many dad joke puns. Um, that’s, that is what I bring to our podcast experience folks. And, and just, just that, that’s it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. 80’s hairband references and the occasional dad joke pun. All right. That’s what you’re signing up for BossHeroes with, with, uh, your listening time. Um, but I will tell you this, Alyssa, just to, to wrap this part up, that’ll probably be one of the first pieces of dad wisdom that I impart to my kids when they get a little bit older too, you know, um, if, if they want to do something, be something accomplish something, you know, if they want to be the starting shortstop on the high school baseball team, you know, that’s advice to heed. If they want to get a certain kind of, uh, college acceptance, that’s advice to heed, you know, it, it is, it is generational. It is timeless. And it’s, uh, it’s important. I think for professionals at all levels to, to abide by.

Alyssa:
Indeed. Absolutely.

Joe:
All right folks. Remember, this is your show and we want to hear from you. You can email us at bossbetternow@gmail.com. In fact, we’d love for you to actually be on the show. What’s the best piece of professional career advice you’ve ever been given? Drop a comment at that email address or hop over to our Boss Better Now Facebook page, and tell us about it there or pop open that voice memos app on your smartphone, and record the best piece of professional advice you’ve ever been given and send it to us. We may play you live on the podcast. And if we do that, I might even send you some really cool BossBetter swag. I have no hesitation about bribing your participation with love swag giveaways. We are swag masters here. All right, folks. And that ends our Camaraderie Question of the Week. And that does it for this episode. Folks, if you like our podcast, you will love my BossBetter email newsletter. You can get videos, articles, notes of encouragement, and more delivered straight to your inbox. We’ve been doing this for years. It’s, it’s the most popular way that people keep in touch with me and to subscribe for free just head over to visit bossbetternow.com Thank you for listening and thanks for all that you do to take care of so many.

Alyssa:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.

Joe:
Hey, BossHeroes, more than once you’ve heard me say commitment comes from better bosses, but where do better bosses come from? Answer – the Joe Mull and Associates Boss Better Leadership Development Program. The managers on your team aren’t going to develop the self-awareness, knowledge, skills, and relationships critical to success in a one day training. If you want them to motivate teams, maximize effort, and create the conditions for your employees to thrive, they need on-going education. It’s like going to the gym. If you go once, you’ll get a good workout, but no long-term results. If you keep going though, you get healthier and healthier over time. The same is true for bosses. They need continuous learning and mentorship. When your organization subscribes to our Boss Better Leadership Development Program, all your leaders get access to my quarterly micro trainings, my live coaching clinics, and digital vault of on-demand training and more. Our approach keeps the time commitment low, but the impact sky high Oh, and everything we do is evidence-based and highly entertaining…. If I do say so myself. So what are you waiting for? Let’s give your leaders the skills, tools, and knowledge. They need to supercharge commitment and boss better for more information, or to get a quote, email us at hello@joemull.com.