39. Building Credibility With a New Team + When Great Bosses Quit

Transcript – Episode 39: Building Credibility With a New Team + When Great Bosses Quit

Joe:
How do you make a good impression when leading a new team? What if you’re younger than those you supervise? How do you earn credibility? And what time of day do you do your best work? It may not be when you think. That’s all ahead now on Boss Better Now.

Alyssa:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. Please welcome speaker, author, and someone who does not want lemon in his ice water, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Greetings and salutations, BossHeroes. And welcome back to the show. And yes, let me tell you, I don’t understand. I don’t understand when the world suddenly decided that by default lemon should come in the water when you order it at the restaurant. I do not know when this happened, but it disturbs me because I, for one do not like lemon in my water. And it feels like if we were adding a piece of fruit to water without asking people that that is a violation. I think it’s something that should not have happened. I just…I don’t want to have to go to the restaurant and say, ‘Uh, ice water, no lemon, please.’ Right? I don’t have to go to the restaurant and say, ‘Um, ice water, no kiwi.’ I don’t have to go to the restaurant and say, ‘Ice water, no ketchup.’ Right? They don’t just randomly put things in the ice water that we didn’t ask for. But for some reason, lemon has crossed that threshold. I don’t get it and I’m filing a protest.

Alyssa:
Wow. Wow. Could you tell us more about how you feel Joe? Cause I really don’t think I have clarity around that. And I, but I do know where you should direct your complaint to.

Joe:
Oh! You have answers.

Alyssa:
There is a complaint department in the health and wellness factory. The machinery of the gurus, probably like around goop… Or, uh, you know, I don’t want to slander anyone. Anywho, these, these gurus over here have said at some point in the history of what will make you better as a human being from the inside out, it will be lemon water and thus lemon in the water.

Joe:
I’m sure that there is like a lemon lobbying firm somewhere that has partnered with people who like lemon in their water to make that the default. And I might just start by a letter-writing campaign to Applebee’s and just be like, ‘Listen…’

Alyssa:
Applebee’s!

Joe:
‘Revolution starts with one person standing up and will you join my revolution, Applebee’s? Feeling good in the neighborhood with no lemon in my ice water.’

Alyssa:
It’s the Applebee’s for me. Oh, my goodness. Ooh.

Joe:
Well, we’re starting strong today, folks. And if you’re like me and you’re anti lemon in your water, then, you know, hey, um, we’ll band together and we’ll be the, the new resistance. Um, but we start today, uh, with an email from one of our listeners. Uh, an email from a gentleman named Jeff. And Jeff sent in two questions, uh, that I actually think are related. So let me read you what Jeff asked, because I, I actually get into conversations about this a lot, and I think this could be particularly helpful for our listeners. Jeff writes in and says, ‘I have two questions. How do you make a good first impression when leading a team? I know I have to continually put in the work, but any suggestions for a good start are appreciated. Also, any advice for a younger boss with an older team? You’ve spoken about confidence in the workplace and knowing when to be a collaborator versus an authority figure. But I was hoping you had some opinions on this specific topic.’ He goes on to thank us for the show. Um, but there’s a through-line between these two questions. Isn’t there, Alyssa? The first question being, how do I make a good first impression when leading a team? And the second question being, any advice for a younger boss with an older team? And I see that through-line in both cases as credibility. How do I earn credibility from a group of people that I have to supervise when they don’t know me? Right? And, and there’s a youth factor here, obviously. Um, and a new factor here, obviously, but in both cases here, someone who is looking for, how do I establish credibility? And so, let me toss that to you first, where do you want to start for Jeff?

Alyssa:
Well, I want to… Can I ask you a question? Cause I want to make sure that I, I truly do understand how you define credibility and what that… What does someone do, um, to show credibility?

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
I’ll get to that, but how do you define it, if you will? So, I can make sure that I’m on the same wavelength.

Joe:
Sure. I think if, if we want to understand why Jeff wants to make a good first impression with his team.

Alyssa:
Uh-huh.

Joe:
Uh, and he wants to overcome the perceptions of inexperience that come with being younger than the people you supervise. It’s probably because he wants to have influence. Right?

Alyssa:
Hmmm.

Joe:
He wants to be trusted. He wants to be seen as credible by the folks on his team so that he can help them be successful and then in turn be successful at his job.

Alyssa:
Ok.

Joe:
So, I guess I see it through the lens of he’s trying to establish credibility so that he can have influence and help them be successful, which is him being successful.

Alyssa:
Ok. So, like what I picked up was like demonstrate-able trust. Those are the keywords that stood out to me. Um, and for me, credibility comes from values. From your values. Who you are as a person and authentically acting, demonstrating, trusting those values. So, it is part of this operational system, not just as this siloed thing of you as a leader, it is you as a human being. Right?

Joe:
Hmmm.

Alyssa:
Okay. So, when you’re trying to establish credibility, you have to go inward before you go outward for me.

Joe:
Uh-huh.

Alyssa:
Okay? So being able to readily articulate your values and being able to… You know, here’s an exercise that I actually have used with clients is that, say your value is, um, honesty is like really important to you. Okay? That’s something that is deeply held personal value for you. Then think about who is the most honest person you know in your life. How do you know? What does that person do or say that demonstrates to you that they are the most honest person that you know? And so, when I think about this in the, um, constructs of coaching and in the professional realms, what I say is, ‘Okay, in the workplace, can you find something like that?’ And this is like, you’re building your best boss. So, we’re not only bossing better. We’re building our best boss. And we’re holding that as the lens through which we want to look. Right? And that gives us actionable, tangible things that can then take this from the inside, this value, and lend it towards authentically presenting that value, that value in a way that is absolutely going to be credible. Because when you have authenticity to your values, that will absolutely lead to credibility.

Joe:
Hmmm.

Alyssa:
Period. End of story.

Joe:
Yeah. Being yourself and showing what your authentic self looks like. Absolutely. Um, you know, I think about this question in a couple of different ways. Um, it reminded me of an experience that I had a number of years ago. I’ve always looked younger than every job I’ve ever had. I have a babyface. And, uh, I’ve always battled that perception of inexperience and lack of wisdom that comes with having a young face. And, uh, I was working in a large healthcare system a number of years ago, and the, um, department chair of a very large, uh, world-renowned, um, specialty group…their department was having a lot of conflict and they had reached out to our HR VP, uh, looking for some help with how to resolve it. And our VP at the time said, ‘You know, I have a guy who is good at this. I’m going to have him come up and meet with you. And, um, we’ll see what he can come up with. ‘And so, we went up together, the VP and I, and we walked into the room and the VP introduced me to the department chair and said, ‘This is Joe. He’s our head of learning and development.’ Um, and the first thing out of this faculty member’s mouth, when he shook my hand was ‘Jesus, I’ve got ties older than you.’.

Alyssa:
EEK!

Joe:
Right? Um, and you know what happens next is an interesting choice, you know, cause you can get defensive. Um, you can shrink from the moment, and you can, you can be timid. Neither one of those gets you where you want to go. And so, I immediately fire back. I said, ‘Well, good news. I’m old enough.’.

Alyssa:
Yeah!

Joe:
And uh, and I smiled and um, sat down and I immediately went into the work. I said, ‘Okay, you know, Tim tells me that you’ve got a couple of things going on. Would it be okay if I asked you a few questions?’ And he said, ‘Sure.’ And then for the next 20 minutes, I just did our kind of standard needs assessment stuff. I asked him the questions that I knew I would need answers to, to try to help him solve his problem. And apparently, at the end of the meeting, he pulled the VP aside and said, ‘Well, you were right. He’s really good at this.’ And so, it’s a mantra…it speaks to a mantra that I heard a long time ago. I don’t remember where I heard it, but it stayed with me. Uh, you gain credibility from the quality of the questions you ask. The quality of the questions you ask demonstrates your values, as you spoke to. It demonstrates your caring and it demonstrates your competence. Um, I, I’m a big believer that credibility comes from the combination of those two things, competence and caring. If you need to establish credibility either with a new team or a team that is older than you, you’ve got to demonstrate pretty quickly that you genuinely care about what they care about. That you care about them as individual people. You care about their challenges. You care about doing right by them by being an advocate for them. Caring, caring, caring, caring. But then on the other side of this is you have to be competent, right?

Alyssa:
Right.

Joe:
You, you actually have to have a reason for being in that role if you got promoted because you’re … you’re, you’re the, the owner’s brother’s son-in-law and you don’t know jack about the work. You’re not going to have credibility.

Alyssa:
Right.

Joe:
So, competence, being able to figure out, okay, here’s what I’m good at. I could these people with this, but I need to demonstrate caring as well, along the way, shortens the runway to credibility.

Alyssa:
Wow. That’s a beautiful…well as a coach, the whole thing of, you know, it starts with the questions. Yes, it does! Like that just sings to my heart. Um, but I’d also, for me, the instant, you said that it took me out of that space of proving it.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
Because you know, when we go at it, whatever it is with this stance of, I have to prove it to them. I have to earn it. I have to, you know, all of that stuff that puts it way into the realm of what you want and not that realm of caring and compassion and trying to understand and question what it is that they care about…

Joe:
Right.

Alyssa:
…So that you can demonstrate your competence. Um, and it…when you do that, when you ask those kinds of questions, it…has to take you out of this ‘proving it’ space and into this place of curiosity and caring. And that’s absolutely going to lead to that credibility.

Joe:
There’s a show, don’t tell aspect of that, right? That you can’t go into the room and give everybody your background and your bio and talk about why you’re so smart. And you know this, and you have all that experience. You have to show them that you belong there through the interactions that you have and through the things that you prioritize. Which is why we’ve talked about this on the show before, I think one of the biggest mistakes leaders make with a new team is implementing change too quickly. They come in and they say, oh, no, no. This is going to work better if we do it this way. And they haven’t done any of the foundational relationship building and information gathering that comes with interacting with the people who were there and understanding why things happen the way that they do and then inviting them to partner with you for exploring change. Uh, sitting across from the team and saying, ‘Hey, I want to better understand why this works this way. Um, can you help me understand that?’ And then if you are still thinking about some change, sitting in front of the team, and saying, I am considering making changes, and here is why. But I don’t just want to impose that change from the top down. I want us to craft it together so that we’re all rowing in the same direction. When you have those kinds of conversations and approaches with the team, you’re doing all of the things that we just talked about. You’re putting them at the center of the interactions. You’re demonstrating that you care about their ideas and their input and their experience. When you go into these interactions with the belief that every single person on my team knows more about something than I do, just because of the chair that they sit in…

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
…Or the time that been there, or the relationships that they have, or the duties that live with them. Then you go into those interactions with the, with the intent purpose of mining them for their expertise to make you more of an expert. Which then informs better decision making and leadership.

Alyssa:
Amen! And can I just say, Jeff, thank you so much for writing. And like, it warms my heart to no end that people communicate with us, and they value our opinions and holy poop, this is like my dream job! Like to be able to serve people at this capacity. So, listeners, we’d love to hear from you. This is awesome stuff. Fill up my cup with this kinds of stuff. Fill it up!

Joe:
Yeah. We’ve, we’ve got more of these coming. We’ve had a kind of a little rush into the inbox lately of some different scenarios and situations. And, um, I’ve got those teed up for some future episodes. And, um, so yes, please. We want to hear from you. We want to hear about your challenges. Uh, we want to hear about the, the problems that you’re facing in your leadership role, um, whether it’s people problems or situational problems. And you can email us your questions at bossbetternow@gmail.com. Uh, and we may tackle your problem on the show, just like we did Jeff’s problems. So, thank you, Jeff. Good luck. And, you know, circle back to us, my friend, let us know how it’s going.

Joe:
Now that music means that it’s time for the Camaraderie Question of the Week. Bosses build camaraderie on teams, by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why here on our show, every week we give you a question you can use with your peeps… Peeps? Your peoples? DO people still say, peeps?

Alyssa:
I don’t think so.

Joe:
Not the little squishy, Easter things, marshmallow things. Not those kinds of peeps – your people. You can use these questions with your people to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. And so, our Camaraderie Question of the Week for this week, Alyssa: At what time of day do you do your best work and why?

Alyssa:
Uh, hands down – instantaneous answer – is the morning.

Joe:
Uh-huh.

Alyssa:
Like early morning. Okay? Um, because generally speaking, even like when I was going into the corporate office, like, you know, every day, um, there are less people.

Joe:
Uh-huh.

Alyssa:
Less people like to be in the office by like 7:00 AM. Right? Um, and so that is my, why is just less having to be available for the outside input and requests of people of humans. The second thing though, is I would add a caveat to that to say it also depends upon the kind of work. So, like if I am super focused and I want to get a project done and, um, like want to write, or something like that, morning is still the best absolute time. Now, if I want to do something that’s like fun and creative and, um, I can have music playing in the background and stuff like that. Then probably like early afternoon is my better time.

Joe:
Yes. Good stuff. That’s…that very closely aligned with my answer to this question.

Alyssa:
Does it?

Joe:
Um, and it depends on the kind of work. And so, so much of my work is divided between the creative stuff – having to write for our BossBetter email newsletter, to write programming for clients if I’m writing a keynote or a workshop, writing content for our monthly BossBetter Leadership Academy events, writing for our social media channels. Um, and that always takes an incredible amount of focus for me. Like some people can just sit down and crank that stuff out. I am not that person. Um, when I’m finished writing a thing, I feel like I’ve worked out. Like I’m tired.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
And it just drains me in a way because of how dialed in I have to get around it. But we have a pretty incredible volume of content that we have to create every month in service of all the various clients and channels that we have. And so, what I’ve learned is I can only get one or two of those done a week. And so, if I’ve got a big client project coming up, or if I’ve got something that needs to be written for our email newsletter, for example, then I know that I’ve got to pick time one or two blocks of time that week to shut out the rest of the world and get it done. And for me, it usually is in the morning as well.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
Um, the other, the other time, the tasky time, I’ve talked about tasky time, where I’m answering emails and, and okay, I’ve got to adjust this form or fill out this paperwork or call this person back. I can crank through that stuff in the morning a little bit faster than in the afternoon because I’m fresh. But I know that if I do that in the morning, I’m robbing myself of my most creative time. So, I try to save a lot of that stuff for the afternoon when I have a little bit less mental capacity,

Alyssa:
That makes total sense. And as a boss, folks, you asked this question. It…this isn’t just about like humoring people’s answers. Like, listen. Take notes!

Joe:
Yes!

Alyssa:
Because people go around and tell you they do their best work, you know, between this time and this time, or they want absolute, you know, they really enjoy the absolute silence that they achieve in the office in the morning, or what have you. Make some freaking notes about that.

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
And then start honoring that for them. And yourself!

Joe:
That’s part of the flexibility that we talked about a couple of episodes ago.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
When, when you can create some flexibility for people around when, where, and how they work, you actually get the best version of them. Because then they can prioritize their workflows, their projects, their responses, um, in alignment with how they best operate. You know? And, and it’ll take some time and space for people to figure that out. Right? I, I didn’t know, a couple of years ago, when I started my own business, that all the creative stuff is better in the morning. You know, that took me a lot of trial and error. And so, once I figured that out, I became, I became better at it. Uh, by the way, this is a funny aside. And you know, if we were in a big staff meeting with a whole bunch of people, um, I probably wouldn’t say this, but it’s just you and me, nobody else is listening.

Alyssa:
Just us.

Joe:
Just us.

Alyssa:
Just us.

Joe:
You know when I actually do my best work?

Alyssa:
Tell me.

Joe:
It’s in the shower.

Alyssa:
Oh my God. We have talked about this before.

Joe:
Have we?

Alyssa:
But it has been off my… Yes. Because I, I too have wished that they would make like adult waterproof stuff because I’m telling you, I come up with the best, best stuff in the shower.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
And I don’t know if it’s the heat, the water…

Joe:
Right.

Alyssa:
All the things in my brain hole just come pouring out. And by the time I’m done drying and rushed to my notepad…

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
It’s a fraction. A fraction of the genius.

Joe:
We need a desk. We need a desk right next to the shower. That’s completely waterproof. So that like your naked, dripping wet self can jump out, sit, and blalalalala. Like, capture it all right there. And it’s so funny because I…

Alyssa:
Maybe not sit. No.

Joe:
That’s right. You know, I bet you could find that on Amazon. That’s on Amazon. Everything’s on, on Amazon.

Alyssa:
That’s true.

Joe:
What’s funny though, is I will get so consumed in like my thinking about something I’ve got to work on that day. Or how do I want to talk about this problem where maybe I…Cause right often when I take my shower, I’ve just finished my coffee and like reading a bunch of news and articles. And so, I’ve sometimes been mentally sparked by an idea I read like in the New York Times or something and thought, oh, I can make a connection with that in a speech or for a thing that I’m writing. And all of a sudden, I have no memory of whether I cleaned anything in the shower. Like did I wash my hair? Did I condition? Did I body wash? You know, I’m just going to do it twice just in case. Have you had that experience?

Alyssa:
Oh, absolutely. Because like, you know that first time you drive home and you’re like, ‘Oh my God. Did I…did I remember to stop at all the red lights? Because you don’t remember the journey.

Joe:
Yes! Yes.

Alyssa:
That’s how like out of your own brain hole, you were. Yeah.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
Absolutely.

Joe:
That’s us. That’s us. Fun question. Ask this of your teams. And if you’ve created a lot of psychological safety, maybe they can tell you how they operate in the shower.

Joe:
Well, hey friends, if you like what you hear on our show, then make sure you sign up for my BossBetter email newsletter. Twice a month we share original videos, encouraging messages from me, subscriber-only access to our training and events, breaking news, and more. And we only send those emails out twice a month on average. So, we’re not blasting your inbox. So, to sign up for those, just go over to BossBetterNow.com. We’ll send you some good stuff that you don’t get here on the podcast. And with that, Alyssa, today we’re going to wrap up our show with some storytime.

Joe:
She only got about seven words out before tears started. She had waited at the end of the line after my keynote. She was lingering at the back of the line and kind of looking at the floor. And I’d seen this before. I knew she was also waiting for the room to empty. I had just stepped off the stage of a large ophthalmology conference in Las Vegas, where I gave a keynote on how bosses cultivate commitment. And during that session, I spent a lot of time debunking the myths about why people are quitting their jobs and how it’s not about lazy. It’s not about work ethic when she got to me. And when the room was almost empty, she spoke almost in a whisper. ‘I just have to tell you that what you just said…’ And then she started to cry. Joyce, not her real name, took a breath and started over. ‘I have to tell you that what you just said…I just really needed to hear it.’ She went on to tell me that she had just left her position as a practice administrator for a large physician group after 17 years. She described much of that time her job was to keep the business going. Doing whatever it took to be of service to her doctors. For years, she got more and more work, more responsibility, and less help. She told me she got her doctors through lawsuits and regulatory changes and financial distress. She single-handedly managed a growing staff and all the problems that they faced. And after her demanding role had long since passed the point of being reasonable for one person to sustain, she started asking for help. Eventually, she begged. Again, and again though, her doctors refused. They didn’t want to spend the money. After years of this and after years of agonizing over her options, Joyce finally quit. As she told me this story, she choked back sobs. ‘And do you know that when I went in to resign, after years of service, after years of doing everything for them, even when it took a toll on my health and my family, do you know what they said?’ She was so angry that she could barely get the words out. ‘They questioned my work ethic.’ I’ve thought about Joyce nearly every day since we met in July. Because her story is one that’s playing out everywhere. In workplaces, all over the rising tide of help, wanted signs we’re seeing are not because people are lazy. They’re there because years of crushing workloads and demanding schedules were followed by a COVID pandemic that took a strained workforce and broke it. And now there’s been this collective reshuffling of our values and priorities around work. And for some folks, the suffering that they once tolerated, they can no longer stomach. There are many folks right now who are like Joyce but are still in their jobs. They’re threadbare. Some of the, some of you have left, but some of you continue to show up in spite of complete exhaustion. And though you haven’t left, you’ve thought about it. Lately, you might be thinking about it a lot. That’s why I wanted to share this story with you today because you might be ‘Joyce’ or you might be on the brink of being ‘Joyce’. And I just want you to know that if you’re struggling to keep up, if you are fried, you’re not alone. If you feel like you’re drowning at work, that’s not a failure of skill or effort or caring. That’s not about work ethic. That’s happening everywhere. This is the not-so-invisible pandemic we are fighting right alongside the viral one. And so, I just want you to know that it is okay to not be okay. And if this, is you, please ask for help. Talk to people in your network, talk to a professional, get some support. And as a final thought, if you’re a leader and someone comes to you, as Joyce went to her bosses, and tells you, they simply cannot keep this up. Please, under no circumstances, should your response have anything to do with their work ethic. Not right now. Not after all of this. Instead, respond with compassion and with empathy. Say ‘Thank you for telling me. That must be really hard. Tell me more.’ Help them get it out and listen! Really listen. And then do all you can to show up in the ways that you are asking for. Joyce isn’t done working. She made that clear. She’s starting to think about her next step. She has a different set of values and priorities now in terms of what she’s looking for and where she’ll decide to take her talents. So, keep that in mind, too. If you run a healthcare clinic that would benefit from the talents and unquestionable work ethic of someone, who did it all for 17 years, let me know. I may know just the person. And there are other folks out there like Joyce too, who will come walking through your doors, looking for the right kind of work environment that doesn’t wear them down again.

Joe:
What do you think of Joyce’s story, Alyssa?

Alyssa:
I think there’s a little Joyce in all of us.

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
And, um, I’m in my feels right now soooooo… I’m going…I’m just going to stay there for a little bit.

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
And be glad that the recording of this, excuse me, podcast is almost through.

Joe:
Okay.

Alyssa:
Because I feel you, Joyce. I do. I really feel ya.

Joe:
Yeah. You’ve lived that. That’s part of…that is part of your bio. No doubt. Yeah. And I think it’s interesting because right now, as we’ve come out of summer and into fall, I think we get really, um…we could get it caught in a trap. Especially if we have folks on our teams who got a vacation this summer, which they probably didn’t get last summer, you know? And, and we’ve had now two years of hellish work conditions, which were proceeded by Americans being the most overworked nation on earth. We’ve been talking about that here a little bit. And it’s really easy to think that, ‘Well, you got a week’s vacation. Why didn’t you come back recharged?’ I just took a week’s vacation. When I left, I was exhausted. And I kept saying to my wife, I really need this trip to be restorative. And you know what? I came back exhausted.

Alyssa:
It’s not a…

Joe:
The trip was great.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
We needed it. But like one week ain’t going to set us all right.

Alyssa:
Nope. Absolutely not.

Joe:
And so, I think that’s the cautionary tale here, is that the years of grinding people down and the demanding workloads and followed by COVID, it’s going to take years to recover from that too.

Alyssa:
Absolutely.

Joe:
That’s our show this week, friends. If you liked what you heard, please click that subscribe button to make sure that new episodes are automatically teed up on your device as soon as they are available. For now, thanks for being with us. And thanks for all that you do to care for so many.

Alyssa:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit JoeMull.com today.