16. A Boss’s Secret Weapon + Employee Doesn’t Like Me

Transcript – Episode 16: A Boss’s Secret Weapon + Employee Doesn’t Like Me

Joe:
There’s a secret weapon bosses everywhere should be using to get the most out of their teams, but most aren’t. And what should you do when you’re doing everything right as a boss, but there’s that one employee that just doesn’t like you. All that and more this week on Boss Better Now.

Alyssa:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. Please welcome speaker, author and bullet journal devotay – devotee – devotay – something, Joe Mull.

Joe:
It’s a tricky word. That’s okay.

Alyssa:
Devo -TAY – Devo – TEE.

Joe:
I think it’s devotee. D-E-V-O-T-E-E, yes?

Alyssa:
All right. Forgive my grammar, my Smanglish there folks.

Joe:
Is it devot”ee” here, but devo “tay” in France?

Alyssa:
Latin root, please?

Joe:
Hello, BossHeroes. Welcome again to the place where we recognize and celebrate your devotion to your team and the constant output it takes to lead thoughtfully and professionally. After all we know there are days when you briefly consider telling that one person what you really think of them, but then you don’t because employment. Please welcome my co-host professional coach, Alyssa Mullet. How are you, my friend?

Alyssa:
Good. Less ragey so that’s good. Uh, but I still very much connect with the whole want to tell someone what you think of them, but don’t because, you know, you got to live here.

Joe:
I appreciate that you are a devotee of civility. See what I did there?

Alyssa:
I, yeah, I did. I, I appreciate it.

Joe:
Well, I’m so glad that we are gathering once again today for our podcast, because today we’re going to talk about something that I might argue is the single most important habit that a boss can get into. I alluded in, in the opening and the preview that there is a boss’s secret weapon that a lot of leaders aren’t using and we’re just going to go right at it. That secret weapon is recurrent one-on-one meetings with direct reports. So whenever I go in and do workshops or keynotes, and I talk about this, I will ask how many of you in the room today do recurring one-on-one meetings with your direct reports. And most of the time, it’s usually about half of the room or less, that raises their hand. And certainly the industry and the work, the workplace environment are going to influence this. You know, if you’re, uh, working in as an electrical contractor and you’re building hotels and you’re the foreman, you may not be stopping to, to have these kind of formal sit-down meetings, but that doesn’t mean you’re not having recurring one-on-one some of the times the pulling the people aside and the interactions that you have will accomplish some of the same things that we’re going to talk about. But my point is that recurring one-on-one meetings are the way that we create the conditions for people to thrive. So in our earlier episode, uh, two weeks ago, we talked about the conditions that leaders have to create, where we talked about making people feel like they matter and, and their professional growth and development and bonding with the team, all of that happens in recurring one-on-one meetings. And (Alyssa: That’s where it shows up.) That’s where it shows up. That’s, that’s the jet that takes you to the destination that you want to get to. If, if, if engagement is paradise and where you’re at right now is, is like Pittsburgh in March, and it’s not paradise. You gotta get on the jet and fly for a while before you can get where you want to be. And the one-on-ones are the jet. They’re the vehicle that takes us there. Were you a leader who did recurring one-on-one meetings with your direct reports, Alyssa?

Alyssa:
Yes, absolutely. I was, um, uh, I, I think back on those times as some of the fondest of my career. I, I really cherish deeply the, those opportunities that I had to build relationship with, uh, those individuals. Um, you know, it got to be a little bit of a joke, um, in that, um, w we, they came up with, at first, I did not, but one, one particular team used to refer… They had different bird names for themselves. Right. Um, and I was the mama bird and their bird names all like represented something that they felt they excelled at, or they did, or represented their characteristic of some, uh, you know, in some capacity. Um, and so to me, you know, that one-on-one is like, they’re in the nest, right? In the nest with mama bird. Like, that’s how we, that’s how we fed each other. That’s how we connected was through that opportunity. That’s where people get heard and feel seen is in those types of connections.

Joe:
Oh, I’m just in madly in love with the analogy of the bird’s nest, because when you’re in the nest together and mama bird is feeding the bird, now the bird can grow and fly and soar because of the time that was spent in the nest, I am hammering and way overdoing this analogy, but you get my point.

Alyssa:
We can always count on you to make it a beautiful illustration.

Joe:
Well, and, but, but the greater point that you raised too, is that this is not necessarily just project update time, right? Recurring one-on-one meetings are about, uh, demonstrating that you care about the person there, that there are conversations about, like we’ve talked about before, what energizes you about your work? What do you want to get out of your career? What do you need from me that you’re not getting, you know, this is, this is time that’s devoted to them. And I brought some data with us today, Alyssa, that I th I thought you might find interesting. Um, a couple of years ago, I came across a study in training magazine, um, about one-on-one meetings and motivation. And in the survey that they conducted, they found that 89% of employees want to meet with their boss one-on-one at least once a month or more, and actually 44% of employees want that meeting to be weekly.

Alyssa:
Wow. So that’s a touch much for me, but (Joe: Is it?) Okay?

Joe:
Yeah. And I think it’s the nature of the work too, because there are some roles that require that kind of constant dialogue with my boss. I need to check in and how do you want me to handle this? And so some of it is project update time. I think that filters into some of the answers on this. Um, but here’s an interesting stat. When you survey employees about one-on-one meetings, 69% of employees say they want to set the agenda for those conversations, they want to drive the car. And so I share that with our audience today, because I think I would hope that it should provide some relief that if you’re going to set up recurring one-on-one meetings with your employees, you don’t always have to drive the car. You don’t have to go in there with an agenda.

Joe:
You don’t have to go in there prepared to trigger stimulating conversation for 30 minutes. If you set this up with your employees, that this is time devoted to you to talk about anything you want to talk about, it’s just also a chance for me to check in with you, find out you’re like, how’s it going? What’s working for you, that you like, and is there anything you need us to take away? It’s just all about you. If you do that over and over and over again, and you constantly, I’m going to switch my metaphor or my analogy now from driving the car to riding the horse. If you hand them the reins….

Alyssa:
Oh goodness.

Joe:
They eventually will start taking control of that agenda. When you were doing supervisory recurring one-on-one meetings, Alyssa, how often were you in charge of the agenda? Or how often were they driving the conversation?

Alyssa:
Yeah, that’s a good differential there. I, you know what, not nearly as much as I think that it now looking back, it should have been, it should have been, you know, more their opportunity, um, to lead and show me what they needed, um, how they wanted to be supported in their role. Um, I think too, that it speaks to, um, Oh man, just like the, the birds the thought just flew right out of my head. Oh my gosh. Well, that’s embarrassing folks. Well, remind me what we were talking about. Oh, I got it. I got it. (Joe: We’re going to edit free. Keep it going.) It was holding the silence. (Joe: Oh, yes. Yes.) I should have employed. The tactic that we now know is so critical to the coaching dynamic to a leadership dynamic is being able to live in someone else’s silence because that creates space that they need. And they will fill the silence if you are brave enough to allow it, because that’s where magic stuff happens.

Joe:
Absolutely. If you are sitting across from somebody and you say, so-so, what’s the most difficult thing you faced in the past week, and that person says, I don’t know. I mean, nothing really. That’s not an editing issue here, folks. I just stayed silent on purpose because if you can sit in that silence, right? You, you signal to that person. Like that’s okay, but keep going. And if you’ve done a little bit of work on the front end to set up what these meetings are for and how you want them to work, you can say, I’m not going to let you off the hook. Like, like this is time that’s devoted to you. And I know it’s not always easy to come in here and like unpack stuff with me, but I care enough about you to make sure that you’re getting that kind of support. Even if there are weeks when you don’t feel like you need it. So if I say, if I ask you a question and you give me a one word answer, or you don’t go very deep, I may just wait for you to keep talking, because I want a little bit more from you. And if they understand your intent, if they understand where you’re coming from with it, which is out of a place of caring and out of a place of professional respect and that, you know, as a job, I see my job entirely as being giving you what you need to be successful at yours. Then that dynamic works and not for nothing, but as another quick aside here, if you’re going to start doing recurrent, one-on-ones part of the work you have to do at the beginning is to tell everybody that you’re going to do recurrent one-on-ones and what they’re about. If you just decide to start tomorrow and you pull people in your office and you close the door and everybody’s in there for half an hour, you get the like, Ooh, what happened?

Alyssa:
Yes. Right? Who who’s getting, let go? What did she say about me?

Joe:
Right. So, so that’s the, the, the, um, the setup act right, is you, you pull your team together and you say, listen, I’ve decided I’m going to start doing something that I think is really important to making sure that, that I am showing up as the kind of boss that I want to be and creating the kind of environment that allows you all to thrive. We’re going to have recurring one-on-one meetings. And these are not, you know, performance management conversations. These are, this is time devoted to you. This is time devoted to you to check in, to talk about what’s going on with you to talk about your career. Talk about your work, to talk about what’s energizing you. And to make sure that you’re getting from me, what you need in this role.

Joe:
Do you know what the biggest objection is to one-on-one meetings? When I stand in front of other leaders, and I say, your secret weapon is one-on-one meetings. They are the most powerful tool in your arsenal. If you’re not doing them, you should start. Take a guess, Alyssa, what is the number one objection?

Alyssa:
I’m too busy. I don’t have the time.

Joe:
I don’t have time. And here’s the really cool thing. We can prove that that’s not true with math. (Alyssa: Math. Who knew?) With math, right? Math should have a theme song, {sung} “ba da ba da dmp” MATH. So, and anybody listening to this right now can do a simple equation on a back of an envelope sitting on your desk. If you’re driving, please don’t write and drive at the same time. If you’re running on the treadmill, keep running, but do this later. If you decide that you’re going to start by just having a 15 minute one-on-one each quarter, that’s an hour a year that you’re setting aside for your direct reports for these one-on-one meetings. So take the total number of direct reports that you have. Let’s say you have 20 direct reports. That means you would spend 20 hours a year in one-on-ones sitting down for 15 minutes with each direct report – once a quarter – will cost you 20 hours a year. Alyssa is a HR professional, like me, a recovering HR professional, and like me, she knows that the number 2080 – 2,080 is what Alyssa?

Alyssa:
Oh gosh. Okay. So I know it had to do with my paycheck, like 40 hours. (Joe: Yep. You got it.) Yeah.

Joe:
It’s a year! It’s a year of work. There’s 20 80s in a 40 hour work week, year, right? Sorry, I put you on the spot there.

Alyssa:
I’m not totally brain dead. I I’m proud of myself. I, I knew that figure resembled something of my past.

Joe:
You had to reach way back and grab that it was in there. (Alyssa: It was in there.) Okay. Well, all you have to do listeners is take your total number of direct reports and divide it by 2080. And that will tell you what percentage of your time you will spend over the course of the year in one-on-ones. And if you have 20 direct reports and you do a 15 minute one-on-one with your direct reports every quarter, it will cost you 1% of your time in a year. And so the myth of I don’t have time. It’s just that, it’s a myth. The argument of I don’t have time is a myth. The return on investment that you get as a leader from those one-on-one conversations is so much greater than the 1% of your time that it will cost you that there is no argument against doing them. They are a secret weapon. And if you aren’t doing recurrent one-on-ones, I really hope you will consider starting.

Joe:
All right, friends, if you find our show helpful, please tell others about it. Preferably on social media, where the rest of the world can see your thoughtful recommendation. We love it when our listeners constantly tell other bosses in their network about our show. And if you want even more BossBetter goodness, be sure to subscribe to our twice monthly emails over at bossbetternow.com. And that music means it’s time for the Camaraderie Question of the Week. And I don’t know if you’re watching us on YouTube. You notice it’s really hard not to dance. Alyssa was getting her jam on there as soon as it started. We ask the Camaraderie Question of the Week on every episode because bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other every week, we give you a question that you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. And so our question this week, Alyssa, is this, what is your preferred tool or method for staying organized?

Alyssa:
Ooh, Ooh, I got, I got, I love me some organization. Um, I got lots of tools. Um, I have lots of calendars, but they’re all like electronically integrated with one another. Right? So I, I do a print out of my monthly calendar. Then I have this whole thing that I made for myself for like how to manage my home life. Meaning I have like a one sheet each week that I print off that tells me what housework needs to be done, what days in order to make my home still livable, right within that same sheet, I meal plan for our lunches and dinners. And then I put in integrating anything from my calendar for that week that needs to be accounted for in my meal planning or in my, you know, other activities, uh, for that week. So then I have the good old trusty standby in every single room, almost stack of post-it notes, which drives everyone else batty, but I know what I’m doing.

Joe:
Ah, um, I am both impressed and exhausted by everything that you just said. And it’s funny. Cause I, uh, back in the day when we worked together, uh, at the large academic medical center, you were the color coding queen. Am I right?

Alyssa:
There’s so many things I could show you. Yes. I have things posted-noted and color-coded and here’s this way. And that’s the way that it falls together. And then there’s big envelopes that are color-coded. Yes.

Joe:
So you get comfort or derive comfort by creating systems that allow you to organize and schedule information and time.

Alyssa:
Very much, very much. Uh, and, and you,

Joe:
Um, so, so we share this in common, um, and not to get terribly technical, but uh, you know, our, our Myers Briggs ends in the same letter. We are both J’s. If our listeners know anything about that aspect of personality type, uh, it means that we prefer to move through the world, seeing it as a series of decisions to be made. And so we enjoy organizing and categorizing things we’re the list makers and the color coders and the charts and, and whatnot, uh, people who are not like us have a preference for what’s called perceiving, meaning they move through the world and prefer to remain adaptable, flexible, and spontaneous. And so they’re less likely to, to create organized systems like this, like you and I have just like you just described, um, (Alyssa: You mean live in utter chaos.) Well, that’s the stereotype that we throw at them, whereas they’re sitting there listening to you going, I can’t live like that. Right.

Joe:
Well, but we all have a comfort that we take in the way that we organize ourselves. And so I, uh, you mentioned this at the top of the show, I am a, a bullet journal fan. Um, and it’s, uh, if you’re not familiar with bullet journaling, it’s an analog system where you use a notebook to capture, um, daily, weekly and monthly logs, um, of things that you are working on. You can also create collections which are lists and notes. Um, I use that paired with a digital, um, system that we use in my business for tasks, for task management. And so those two things work together to prevent me from forgetting all of the things that need to get done and when they need to be done. Um, go ahead.

Alyssa:
I, I, I knew that about you. I knew the whole bar bullet journal, and you were one of the reasons I’m in addition to some other folks that I, um, I follow on social media and things that use, uh, the Bullet Journal Method, uh, by Ryder Carroll. And so that is why I bought that book and recently read his book. And I have to tell you, I was of the perception after reading that book like, Oh Lord, no, no, no, no, that’s too much for me. I know that’s like a level of organization that I do not ascribe to in my life. And I just described to you exactly everything I do, but I was not willing to convert and, or take away from any of my current comfort levels to apply it to the system. But the single most important transformational thing that I took away from his methodology and the, the way in which, uh, the bullet journal is laid out and how you organize your thoughts is an index.

Alyssa:
And it’s so simple. I almost like I I’m thinking why have I never done this? So folks, I, you know, I’m a writer as I’ve proclaimed thus many times on the, on the show already, right? So I write every morning and, but I don’t have like, Oh, this is like the way in which I organize what I write about or the context. So what this forced me to do, what this enabled me to do was immediately be able to put an index in the front of each of my journals and put subject matter and, or organizing it by topic. These are the pages that this particular writing is on and being able to then reference it of all things for future use, like actually make it usable for me.

Joe:
And you know what, so everything I know about you and about the system that you just described that you’re currently using, and we might use, we might be using the word system liberally based on all the post-its that are stuck all over your house. Right. But all those post-its, they become notes or collections in the bullet journal. And I should say, let me say this about bullet journaling. Okay. Because you can adapt it to meet your needs. I’m convinced that bullet journaling started out as a very minimalist kind of system, but it has been adopted by people who love scrapbooking. And it has turned into this art form. If you go onto YouTube and you search bullet journal, there’s calligraphy and stickers and fancy tape. And now I am not living in that world. If you looked at my bullet journal, it’s black ink, that’s it. And it’s just a system for me. Whereas I would have scraps of paper. You have post-its. I used to have scraps of paper everywhere. And now they’re all in this organized system. I can tell you right now that the list of the Camaraderie Questions of the Week that we are using for the first 25 episodes of this podcast are in book three, page eight.

Joe:
I mean, that’s crazy, you know, but, but it, but it works. It works for me. And what, knowing what I know about personality type for the people who are listening to this who have had their Myers-Briggs done and who are J’s, the bullet journal is going to be your thang. T-H-A-N-G thang. You’re going to love the way that it’s organized. Um, for folks who are, uh, who are P’s, who maybe want to remain a little bit more adaptable, flexible, spontaneous, it can still work for you based on the way that you use it. Especially if you think about some of the daily logs, um, um, I’m a fan. It has worked for me and I would encourage our listeners to check it out. And that is our Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Alyssa:
Hello, BossHeroes. Are you planning a conference meeting or event? Why not invite our own Joe Mull to be your keynote speaker? Joe speaks and writes about commitment in the workplace in a way that is funny, powerful, and captivating. He knows that your attendees want rich content that is relevant to them and delivered in a way that is fun, compelling, and useful. Joe’s keynote programs help leaders say and do new things so they can get better results. If you’re planning a remote event, Joe can beam in from a fully equipped virtual broadcast studio with multiple cameras, professional audio, and lighting, and tons of interactive ways to engage participants. He will leave your audience raving about their experience. Oh, and Joe is a Certified Speaking Professional. That’s the highest earned designation in professional speaking that is held by less than 20% of speakers worldwide. The CSP is only awarded to speakers with a proven track record of experience, expertise, education, outstanding client service, and ethical behavior. Whether your event is in-person or virtual, your audience doesn’t want another boring 60-minute lecture. They deserve to learn and be inspired by a world-class program from a professional speaker they simply cannot turn away from. That’s what you get guaranteed from Joe Mull. For more information, visit joemull.com/speaking. To check date availability, or to get a quote, email jamie@joemull.com. That’s J-A-M-I-E@joemull.com.

Joe:
Okay, BossHeroes. Our final conversation today is coming from Mail Time.

Joe:
I got a question from one of our listeners, Alyssa, and with apologies to Michael in New England. This question came back, it came to me back a few weeks ago, and I added it to the list of things that have come in that I think might make sense for us to talk about on the show. Uh, and, uh, it just went a little bit longer. I wanted to address his question earlier. Um, and so, Michael, I’m sorry that you may have been waiting for your answer on this. Uh, but here’s Michael’s question. He says I’m doing everything right, but I have this one employee who no matter what I do just seems not to like me, what can I do? I’m going to lob that to you first, my friend,

Alyssa:
Well, here’s my expertise. It’s my expert opinion. Who gives a darn? Because here’s the thing… That’s kind of like life, there are going to be people that no matter what are not gonna like you. And so if your goal, as a leader, is to have everybody like you, you’re gonna fail. You’re setting yourself up for failure. You’re setting them up for failure. It’s not a reasonable expectation to say, in my opinion, everybody’s going to like you. I think what you have to ask yourself…And, and Michael seems like he’s an astute person. He’s, he’s he writing that? You know, he’s doing all that he can. If you are leading in the most authentic way, and you are accountable to you for your actions, that’s all you can do. That is all you can control. You cannot control anything about that individual liking you or how they perceive you. It’s not within your power to control their like-ability of you. You only have control of yourself. Agree?…Disagree?

Joe:
If you were a basketball player… If you were a basketball player, that would be a slam dunk you would have soared through the air like Jordan with your tongue hanging out of your house, out of your mouth. And then the ball would have been jammed through the rim. And you would have lingered with your legs swinging while the crowd roared, because I could not have said that better myself, my friend. Um, my question back to Michael would be, is this an incident or a pattern, right? If for the most part over your career, as a leader, you’ve developed, um, sophisticated relationships filled with mutual respect and trust with the people that you’ve worked with. If you’ve had friendly, supportive, easy relationships with the people that you have supervised, uh, and along comes one person and it just doesn’t click, right? It’s just not working. Um, then everything Alyssa said applies, right?

Joe:
Be like, Elsa, Let It Go. It’s it’s it’s mayonnaise on French fries. Okay. That ain’t right for me. It’s right for some people, but that ain’t right for me. And so, you know, you may just have that, that one person on your team who, their style, their personality, your style, your personality, it just doesn’t go together for them. That is not a failure of leadership, especially if and Alyssa alluded to this beautifully. If you go to work every day and you genuinely care about your people and you act in such a way that you genuinely do everything to support them, to give them what they need to be their best. And you’re, you’re constantly checking in with them. You’re you’re doing all the right stuff. And if it just doesn’t click it, doesn’t click be like, Elsa, Let It Go. Now, if it’s a pattern, right? If it feels like none of my employees like me, and this is my third management job, then it’s probably time to take an inventory to, to do some assessment on your style, your personality, maybe work with a coach. P.S. I know one, uh, you know, there’s some work to be done, potentially if it’s a pattern. Uh, so Michael, if it’s an incident, I say, let it go. What do you think Alyssa?

Alyssa:
Indeed-dally do. Yes.

Joe:
All right, friends. Well, where do you need help as a boss? What would you like to see us discuss on the show during Mail Time? What, what do you need to hear from us to be refueled, recharged or inspired as a boss? We want to hear from you. You can email the show at bossbetternow@gmail.com. You can leave comments under the episodes on our Boss Better Now Facebook page on our YouTube channel or on the podcast website at bossbetternowpodcast.com. This is your show. We are here to serve you while you get up daily to serve others. Please let us know how we can be of service in future episodes. Until next time, thanks for listening and have a wonderful week ahead.

Alyssa:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.