112. Your Frazzled Brain + The To-Don’t List

Transcript – Episode 112: Your Frazzled Brain + The To-Don’t List

Joe:
Are you finding it harder than ever to concentrate? Is your brain filled with nonstop chatter about what you should do or remember? Plus, maybe it’s time to make a to-don’t list. That’s what’s ahead now on Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. The show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now, here’s your host, speaker, and author, and my friend, Joe Mull.

Joe:
<Laugh>. Welcome back to the show, everyone, and especially all of you who are committed to the act of service that is being someone’s boss. That’s right. It’s an act of service because you remember, right? There used to be a time when you only really had to worry about yourself at work, your work, your problems, your standing, and then someday one day someone along the way said, I think you might be good for a leadership role. And maybe they had to have multiple conversations, or maybe you had that ambition from early on. But at some point, you took on the challenge to stop worrying just about what was in front of you and to worry about others. And let’s be honest, there’s probably come a point where you thought to yourself, why did I do this? That’s okay. If you felt that way, that’s pretty normal.

Joe:
And yeah, there are certainly days when thinking back to the time when you only had to worry about your own stuff, probably feels like the glory days <laugh>. But guess what? You have a tremendous amount of influence over what people think and how they feel about their work. And as a result, you have the power to turn their work experience into something that has a profound influence on their quality of life. And so, yes, it is an act of service, but it is also a huge act of influence. Anyway, all of that to say this show is for you, BossHero. Please welcome back to the show, my fantabulous co-host, HR advisor, and executive coach Suzanne Malausky. Hello again, my friend.

Suzanne:
Hi, Joe. Hello. I love that opening — act of service. But when you were talking about going back to the day of remembering what it was like before you had souls to take care of, I couldn’t help but going back to the days before I was a parent. Right? Remember that you had those fantasies, like what did I do with all my time? 

Joe:
What did I do with the time? Yeah. Before they came along.

Suzanne:
Wow. I could have done a lot more between <laugh>, right?

Joe:
Remember when I could go to a movie whenever I want, right? <Laugh>? Yes.

Suzanne:
Yes. I didn’t have to worry about my next meal whether I had one or not. Now I have to worry about somebody else’s. So…

Joe:
And you gotta, sometimes you’ve gotta actually cut the food. Yeah. Depending on the, no.

Suzanne:
Yeah. Their ages.

Joe:
Yep. Yes. <Laugh>. Well, it, it’s a perfect sort of segue to the first thing that we wanted to talk about today. Because the truth is, when you move into a leadership role, you have a lot more of a sort of assault on your senses and especially your brain, right? You have a lot more to remember to concern yourself with. And I know so many leaders who will tell me a big part of my job is to put fires out every day. Or a big part of my job is to figure out how to keep my head above water. Pick your natural disaster metaphor, <laugh>. But we know that leaders of all levels and of all stations will talk about how hard it can be at times to focus. And this is especially true, and we’re hearing this a lot from leaders since the pandemic, right?

Joe:
It, it feels like now more than ever, there’s this sort of nonstop chatter in our brains. We have an article that we wanna point you to today about How to Retrain Your Frazzled Brain and Find Your Focus Again. And one of the scenarios that it talked about in the article was if you are in a situation where you are brushing your teeth and having a thousand thoughts at the same time about all the things you need to do or remember, or take care of or write down or, or follow up on you might be experiencing some frazzled brain. I talked last week on the podcast, Suzanne, about some burnout that I’m experiencing as a result of this very long process of trying to bring this book out into the world. And I will admit, I am and have been for a couple of weeks. I’ve been jumping around in my work. I’ve been making mistakes that I don’t normally make. And I know it’s because I’ve got too much going on. And so why don’t you tell us a little bit, Suzanne, if you don’t mind this article, what, what stood out to you from it? We’re gonna link it in the show notes, and I’m gonna, we’re gonna talk through, ’cause some of the guts of it here for a minute. But what, what was the big takeaway for you about how to retrain your frazzled brain and find your focus again?

Suzanne:
Well, it did, it did talk about the beginning, about picturing your day and how much data is coming through for our senses, our eyes, and our ears. And, you know, there is a lot of stuff going on and you, I did the, the, I disagree with the brushing of the thing. Yeah. Because it said you’re supposed to listen to the, you know, feel the experience or, and it is a good idea of practicing focusing is listening. I have let your toothbrush or listen to the toothbrush, taste the toothpaste. But Joe, I can’t even stand still when I brush my teeth. Do you know what I’m doing? Yes. I’m walking around. I’m going either picking out my shoes Yeah. Or setting up the, the iron so I can iron my shirt or whatever. I, I have a terrible time sitting still, even when I brush my teeth, which leads to a habit of never ever, ever put your shirt on that you’re gonna wear before you brush your teeth.

Suzanne:
Cuz when you walk around a slob it on there. I’ve learned that lesson over and over again multiple times. But so yes, I think our, our brains, and I love the other thing is it’s a, you know, inability to concentrate and why, cause my first question, Joe, when it said the pandemic made this worse, I’m like, I don’t get why, why are we blaming everything on the pandemic for crying out loud? But what it kind of got to is we thought we were all gonna die <laugh>. Yeah. We were… Weren’t there moments where like, this is it, this is the end of it. Right? and so you were, our brains are in this survival mode. We are wired then to be over super sensitive to what do we need to do. What do we need to wear up situational awareness? And we were doing “less” thing in a rote mode.

Suzanne:
Like we just take for granted and just do it. And more of a, am I doing this on purpose? Should I do that? What do I need to be thinking about? Oh my gosh, do I, I’m not going to my job. What do I, what do I do differently? Do I have a job? So, I get it now, but at first, I’m like, I, I’ve been, I can be frazzled with or without a pandemic. But it did add an interesting light on that. I also stress, you know, to carry it in from last week is one of the biggest obstacles to focus, right? Like you said, right? All these things going on and then I’m not showing up and I don’t suffer. They talk about loops or a loop of doom. I’m not a loop of doom person. I am an optimist through and through.

Suzanne:
Usually it’s like, oh, this is the opportunity to do X or Y. Like, I’m always trying to be future-focused. And not that I don’t worry sometimes, but I’ll do a loop of doom, which I can’t even say. But our work in memory, I, I can’t agree with the amount of information that can be held in my mind and used for a task tend of waver, right? It’s coming in and out and wait, what was I doing exasperated that whole… I left my office and went in the kitchen for what? Right? Yes. Notion. Or why did I sit, why did I open this file? And so, I think I absolutely agree with needing to learn how to focus. And I had an epiphany Ah, good. Or a ti-phany, which is a bright idea associated with a, a spark of in… of, you know, inspiration a ti-phany. Get it.

Joe:
Oh, interesting. I get it. Yes. Lamp. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I’m with you. They’re good. You get by jokes <laugh>.

Suzanne:
So, I have you’re aware of one of my clients and I’m commuting into this city, which I haven’t commuted into this city for a long, long time on purpose. And certainly not since the pandemic. So, I’m like, oh, look at me. I’m commuting for the first time really early in the morning. And Joe if you’re familiar with Pittsburgh, so any city has that piece of highway that’s always under construction. So, in Pittsburgh here it’s 28, I’m heading north on 28, which it always has some kind of barrier and it’s always, and I really need to concentrate. And I’m like, oh my God, I don’t even have the ability to focus while I’m driving. It took all I had not to be looking on my phone, messing around because I’m always kind of multitasking. Yes. so, it was like I had to create a whole new habit of how to drive on purpose. Cuz most of my driving was just run into the grocery store or yeah. Rote stuff. Not that I use my phone a lot, but it’s quick little hits, but to be on the road a long time where I’m like, I need to just slow these thoughts down and stay in my driving safe driving zone. Right? Yes. So that was interesting. So that kind of struck here for me. So then so it talks a little bit about a timer, you know, habits of, you know, how long can you hold a thought without “squirrel” or different things coming in Right? And not very long. And she’s encouraging. So, I will go through all of that, but I do believe in the idea of breathing as a tool to bring focus. So…

Joe:
So, yes.

Suzanne:
Go ahead. Go ahead.

Joe:
So, so I think the really central theme of this idea Yes, of course, if, if you are feeling like your brain is cluttered and that you’re constantly Yes. Hurried or harried is training both your brain and then ultimately your physical self to slow down and be still Yes. Yes. And to, to not mentally jump from place to place. Yes. and so, this slowing down and this being still one of the, the daily practices that the psychologist who was interviewed for this article wrote, writes about was investing 12 minutes a day into some simple mindfulness exercises. Yes. And that this is actually a training methodology that she uses with people who are in high-demand jobs, like soldiers or elite athletes, or emergency medics to improve cognition and emotional health. And that really the first part of this exercise is, is sort of traditional meditation.

Joe:
And I don’t know about you Suzanne, but I have tried meditation and my mind wonders so quickly and so violently that I, I don’t know that I necessarily get the benefits of meditation. And so, one really cool idea that came outta this article that I really liked was to think about a flashlight beam. That your focus is like a flashlight beam. And if you find that the beam is drifting in another direction, that’s okay. Just point it back in the direction it needs to go. This is one of those sort of mental analogies that I think is really useful and that, and we can do this during the day too. If you’re sitting at your computer and your email’s ding and you’ve got your to-do list and there’s a phone call you need to make, and now your phone is buzzing with a text message from somebody, I don’t know about you, but I can jump around at times when I know that jumping around is just doing harm. So that mental image of the flashlight beam of just keeping it pointed on the thing that needs the light right now was really powerful for me. And I’ve already sort of paid attention to that. And I think if I’m engaging in meditation or, or mindfulness and I’m sitting down, I’m not gonna beat myself up for having a mind that wonders. I’m just gonna go, nope. Right, point the bean back here at this sort of empty wall that I’m trying to focus on. I, I, what’d you think of the flashlight beam analogy?

Joe:
<Laugh> Your silence.

Suzanne:
It didn’t work for me. <Laugh>. No, it didn’t work for me. Cuz flashlight, it takes it out here when, when my thoughts are right here. So, it was weird, you know, and I’m so visual, it didn’t quite work. I get it. I think it worked for many people. I had learned in my yoga practice was more, you know, when you’re supposed to be sitting in silence or, you know, and, and breathing and relaxing that it’s, it’s okay if your mind wanders, bring it back. So, it was more I had that just,

Joe:
You had that. It’s okay.

Suzanne:
And it’s not about, I love she put one of her there were what, five, five ways to focus better, which is pay attention to your breath. So, I’m a big believer in breathing. And Joe, do you know where that works the most for me?

Joe:
Tell me

Suzanne:
Golf.

Joe:
I like that you looked right and looked left first. If you’re not watching this on YouTube, Suzanne, check to see if anybody was listening. And I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of people listening. <Laugh>.

Suzanne:
Well, and I, I’m here alone, so I’m not even sure why I did this. Anyway, <laugh> if you’ve ever golfed, there’s so many things you think about, yes, your grip, the weight of your foot, how far, how I speed of my club, blah, blah, blah. Everything you just learned in your last lesson or on the YouTube thing you watched, and it was breathing that helped me just be in the moment and just hit the ball. And that’s helped, helped me many times where I felt stress or anxiety breathing is a huge tool and there’s lots of techniques you could find out there. Integrate an everyday life, like you said, brushing your teeth, that’s where this came up. So just focus on what you’re doing right in that moment. In the sensations. In what your senses are taking in is wonderful. It’s just a practice of staying focused. But I love what she said. And the third one was that your mind people report their minds too busy. Your job isn’t to stop it. You need to exist with it. We’re not trying to cut off some of the thinking in our brain or right. Shut it down. It’s your attention and your intention. So, you know where that flashlight comes in for me or pointing it.

Joe:
Back where it needs to go. Yeah. Point back.

Suzanne:
Just bringing you back where you need to be. So don’t feel like you’re too busy. Don’t beat yourself up over having too many thoughts at one time. Just find the ones you need and be intentional about it. And then it’s, she adds on to that. Number four is ignore mindfulness myths. I guess you would say is not clearing your mind. This is actually just using your mind. It’s a workout for your brain Yes. To kind of build muscle memory and a habit of gaining that focus that you’re trying to, to get ahold of. Right. And then I love number five, there’s no blissed-out state <laugh> you’re aiming to experience. Well not without drugs anyway, anyway, <laugh>. In fact, she didn’t write that. I added that. The whole point is…

Joe:
<Laugh>

Suzanne:
Is to be more present in the moment Yes. And right to, to give the person in of us the tension they need or the energy you need to give the task before us our time and intellectual horsepower that we have to give or, you know, to give our child the attention we need to catch the ball they’re about to throw at us. There’s no blissed-out state. It’s not the goal. Right.

Joe:
Right. And, and we’ve talked on the show and, you know, even going back to when Alyssa and I were, were first doing this together over and over again, we have repeatedly come back to themes okay. Around morning routines and how morning routines set up our days. Or, or maybe it’s not a morning routine. Maybe it’s a daily routine and if your routine has to unfold at lunch or in the evening, whatever. But we can embrace some habits and some practices that set the tone for how we wanna show up in the world. And so, I have found success with trying to find moments early in the day as I’m getting ready for my day to think about how I want to show up in my day, how I wanna show up as a speaker or a servant to the community that I’m gonna speak in front of how I wanna show up in my work.

Joe:
Do I wanna show up as frazzled and rushed? Or do I want to have some calm and some peace around how I do my work? How do I wanna show up as a husband, as a father, as a neighbor? Right? And setting that intention can go a long way, especially when you make it a habit, right? When you in, when you set an intention on a daily basis that when I come to my work I’m going to interact and I’m gonna show up in this way. You actually build the muscle memory that you’ll need in the moment in those circumstances when the phone is dinging, and your inbox is lighting up and somebody’s knocking on your office door. I am reminded of a story that a, a colleague from years ago shared with me. And I, I think I’ve talked about this on the podcast before.

 Joe:
But she was watching a documentary on the Weather Channel about these Coast Guard pilots that fly out into the baring sea and do rescues. And this is the, the, these filmmakers were following this crew who gets a call about somebody who has fallen on a ship and is badly injured. They think the neck is broken; this person’s life is in danger. And so, you watch this crew very calmly stand up and they walk over to their kits, and they check their kits and they put their uniforms on. And it’s very deliberate and it’s, it’s slow given the circumstances. And you’re sitting there watching and thinking, you’re like, come on. Like, why aren’t you running to the helicopter? Let’s go. And very intentionally asked the members of this crew about that, hey, we couldn’t help but notice that when this call came in, you didn’t speed up.

Joe:
Why, why don’t you run to the helicopter? And the answer basically was, how you approach a situation is how you will be in that situation. If you bring a harried energy, a frenzied energy into the situation, that will be how you move through it and make decisions. And we need to be deliberate and clear-eyed and clear-minded, and so we don’t run to the helicopter. And that, that little mantra has stayed with me for years. Wow. Don’t run to the helicopter. I have a sticky note. And, and, and oh my God, by my desk that says, don’t run to the helicopter just to remind me. Like, slow it down, brother. It doesn’t like you don’t need to be in such a hurry. Take your time. Be a little bit more deliberate, deliberate, and less frenzied. I, and so maybe that’s our parting, our parting mantra for folks is slow down when you can be still – be still. And in the morning when brushing your teeth, set your intention for the day, which is to don’t run to the helicopter.

Suzanne:
Nice. Bravo.

Joe:
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we’re pros around here. All right, friends, well, I’d love to hear what you think. Are there practices that you’ve engaged in that keep you from feeling frenzied and frazzled during the day? Share them with us by emailing us at bossbetternow@gmail.com.

Joe:
And that brings us to the Camaraderie Question of the Week, as you’ve heard me say, oh, about 112 times now, cuz this is episode one 12. Bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why every week on our show, we give you a question you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie.

Joe:
This week’s question is, do you perform better when you are competing or when you are collaborating? I usually like open-ended questions better than choice questions. But this one was interesting to me cuz I really had to think about it. So, I decided against my better judgment to allow a choice question. Right? An A or B question on the show this week. So, what do you say, Suzanne? Do you perform better when you are competing or when you are collaborating?

Suzanne:
Joe, do you really think you can force me into a choice <laugh>, even?

Suzanne:
If it’s a closed-ended question, then I’m gonna answer in a closed-ended way.

Joe:
You have a third option, don’t you?

Suzanne:
I have a – both of  options. So, both options.

Joe:
Right. Course.

Suzanne:
Depends on the situation. So, when I think about <laugh>, I think about competing on a scale of one to 10 and 10 being the highest. I say personally I’m probably at an eight, eight and a half on the competitiveness. I’m pretty competitive. Yeah. So, if we’re playing, it’s almost like I won’t play Monopoly cuz I can’t stand it if I can’t win <laugh>. But if we’re playing like cards, we keep track of our scores. I have a journal, I can tell you, you know, I’m…

Joe:
Wow 

Suzanne:
Up there. Month’s top two winners in my family for the last five years, right? So, wow, there’s a lot of competitors. And I think I do better because I stay keeping on our theme — intentional and on point because I wanna win. My goal is different.

Joe:
Yes

Suzanne:
I would say I, but we could ask for feedback if this is the truth or not. I would say I’m much more collaborative <laugh> in the professional team-based environment because I still wanna win, so to speak. I wanna get the best results but have learned in sometimes painful ways that you really need to lean on the brains and the expertise, and the ideas and you know, strengths of those who are around you. So, I can be very, very collaborative if I believe that’s gonna get us to the best answer, right? And yes, and when we can set up those opportunities to, to do better <laugh>. So maybe I’m competing with my family and collaborating at work could be there.

Joe:
Interesting. That’s an interesting observation. I, I didn’t come to it that way. I tried to well honor the premise of the question. And I was most mostly in a work context though. Like, I didn’t think, okay, I I’m also very high on the competitive stage, right? When, when we play games, like the point of playing a game is to win. Like, I know some people will say it’s just the, we don’t even need to use the game board. Let’s just ask the questions on the cards. Isn’t that fun? No, no. The point of playing a game is to win. And I, but again, my Myers Briggs helps me understand why I think that way. Yes. I decided that my answer to this question is that I do better when I’m competing. Okay? And often I’m competing with myself sometimes okay to, to, to take something to the next level or to do better at something that I did before.

 Joe:
I like having goals, I like having finish lines. I like having destinations. Okay? And so, I think I create those for myself when I know I’m trying to achieve something or finish something. The other reason I said competing is because I realize that my first choice is always, is almost never collaborating. So actually, as a call back to, to M B T I, when I facilitate Myers-Briggs Type Indicator workshops as a way to illustrate the difference between extroversion and introversion, I will give everybody in the room a task. And then I will say, go. And then I will watch who turns to their neighbor and says, let’s do this together versus who immediately turns to their notebook and starts working alone. Because that can, like, where do you start is a real indicator of what your preferences are. I am an introvert.

Joe:
I wanna start in my own mental space. I wanna do it myself and then maybe invite others into that collaboration. And my team knows this, right? I will, I will prepare a plan and then bring it to them and say, okay, tear it apart. What, where is it terrible? Where are we making mistakes? What have I done wrong? I would much rather do that than gather everybody in the room and be like, okay, so we’ve gotta make a plan for how to do this. And I know there are times when I probably should do it that way, but you know, you have done it and I have done it that way. Yes. but I am very much a, I’m gonna start alone and then invite others in when the time is right. And that to me feels I love it a lot more competing than collaborating.

Suzanne:
Okay. I love it. Well, you, I had exercise, I had to laugh. So, I’m an extrovert.

Joe:
Uhhuh <affirmative>.

Suzanne:
So, but I’m a little more… collaborative’s not my first.

Joe:
Yeah.

Suzanne:
Choice. Kind of like you. I’ve kind of learned where I need it. So, if you say, go do the task, I probably would, I wouldn’t not be heads down. I’d be, I, I’d probably turn someone, I think you should do this <laugh>,

Joe:
You’re delegating <laugh>.

Suzanne:
I’d be telling, or here’s what I’m gonna do. I would wanna talk about it, but it’s probably not more in the, it’s more like telling them or sharing what I’m doing kind of thing. Yep. Yeah.

Joe:
Yep. Isn’t that interesting? That’s fun. I think this is a fun question. It, it, it could lead to some interesting conversations about some of these naturally occurring differences in personality that people have. Yeah. especially if you’ve done a disk Yes. Or you’ve done, and I know you use disk all the time with groups with great success, Suzanne, and MBTI and other sorts of assessment tools. Once you give people a vocabulary around that, a question like this could be really fun to say, how do you see your type or your differences showing up in these kinds of situations? It actually gives them a real-world scenario that they can use to apply what, what they’ve learned about themselves in. So that’s a good one. Shout out to Jamie who found that question. That was fun.

Joe:
That’s the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe:
All right, BossHeroes. Do you know that twice a month I publish our BossBetter Email Newsletter? That’s right. We have thousands and thousands of leaders all across the world who every other Tuesday get a short email from me sharing usually an article or a video or a story about some things we need to know about creating the conditions at work for people to thrive. We’re not really spammy. We don’t try to sell you a bunch of stuff, but it is where you find out about our BossBetter Virtual Summits or get tickets to our VIP web events. And so, if you would like to be on our BossBetter Email list, it’s the primary way I keep in touch. All you need to do is text the word boss hero to 66 8 66. That’s BossHero, all one word to 66 8 66. You do that, you’ll get a prompt to enter your email address, and then poof, you are on the list, and you’ll get all the goodies that we send out every 14 days.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne. We are at the final segment for this week, and it’s all about how maybe instead of making a to-do list, what we need to do is make a to-don’t list. This was in Harvard Business Review recently. I feel like we’ve been calling out HBR a lot lately with some, but there has been some good stuff there. Yeah. So, we will link to this. It’s a very short note in a tip section of their website. We’ll link it in our show notes. But here’s what it basically says. If you aren’t reaching your goals, the solution isn’t to take on more work. It might be to consider what you should stop doing and that you will have more time for what really matters if you eliminate unnecessary busy work.

Joe:
And so, there’s a simple exercise that they suggest to make this happen. This is a really cool idea. I haven’t done this yet, but I’m going to first identify a specific goal or an area of your work that you’d like to improve. And then on a piece of paper divided in half down the middle, and on the left-hand side, make a list of all your daily tasks. And on the right-hand side, make a list of your biggest wins. The, the work milestones that you’re most proud of now. And this is where the magic lives. Draw a line, connecting each of those wins to related tasks and where you have a connection, circle those tasks. When you’re done, look at what’s left encircled on your list. These are the things you should probably stop doing, minimize or delegate to others. Because as you can hear in the exercise, they are not tied to the most important work or the most impactful work that you’re doing. And so, this tip, this idea of a to-don’t list really resonated with me, especially as it relates to the conversation we just had about being frazzled and overwhelmed. Sometimes the way to slow down and be still is to take a step back and say, what do I need to stop doing? So, what do you say, Suzanne? Are you gonna make a to-don’t list?

Suzanne:
Absolutely. When I’m brushing my teeth, <laugh>…

Joe:
Here’s what I’m not gonna do today. 

Suzanne:
Here’s what I’m not gonna do today. I wish I could write that down, but my hands are full. No, I love this. I love that exercise. And like, what, what tasks are you doing that aren’t serving you well,

Joe:
Yes.

Suzanne:
So, and this is from, it’s adapted from want to be more productive try doing less. So, I imagine in that, I dunno if that’s an article or a book, there’s probably even more stuff. This was just a little excerpt from it. But I think what happens next. So, let’s say you’ve identified these things that you’re not going to do that I think there becomes, what I’ve called, and I’ve helped with some of my coaching clients figure out and put a plan toward is called negotiating the undone.

Joe:
Ooh, tell me more.

Suzanne:
Because what happens when you identify things you can’t do, don’t have time to do, aren’t serving you well, whatever it is, it’s hard to let them go. Many times, we either rationalize it, it’s something we’ve always done. I’ve always done that. People are counting on me … counting on me for it. It’s the process, it’s the policy. You might have to negotiate either with yourself to let it go cuz it was just a habit, something you did or with somebody else to say, hey, we’re, I don’t think this serves our team anymore or our process or our structure. So be careful when you look at that list, you may always keep it on there for the, and not have the, or take the opportunity to take the next step. So, it might be negotiating. So that’s either with yourself to get it off there or making a deal with somebody else to let it go.

Suzanne:
And this really showed up. If you are someone, if you’re a leader, and maybe your success has been realized in part by you saying yes to many things, right? You being, I’m, I’m your go-to gal, or I am I am the person you can count on to, to volunteer to get things done. At some point, you’re gonna reach a tipping point where it’s too much, or you’re gonna find you’re not productive, or you’re gonna find your frazzle. You’re frazzled, you’re gonna have to come down with this list. But it’s more than the list. It’s what do you do with it? And so, with one particular person, I remember coaching, she said yes to everything, and then she would get really stressed out and she would get migraines. Yeah. And when I, when she would get a migraine, I knew she had taken on too much.

Suzanne:
And we worked long enough together that I knew what was like a, oh my gosh, there’s a pattern, right? Yeah. So, we talked about it, and I said, you need to negotiate the undone. And that can be when someone comes to you, you can say yes, and here are the things that will take the back burner, or here are the things I suggest we remove off our plan and be able to have the courage to talk about that so that you can reprioritize, get to the productivity you want, meet the goals that you want without getting to that burnout or frazzled out kind of mode. So it’s very important. I’m a believer.

Joe:
Yes. I, you know, we have to be willing to kill our sacred cows, right? We’re, we’re on the cusp of this right now. I’ve been talking… I talked last week about all the things that we’ve been doing and that we’re just a little bit thread bear around here, and we are on the cusp in the weeks ahead this summer of sitting down and taking a look at every single thing that we spend time on in my company, in my business, right? We’re running a YouTube channel. We’re running a virtual summit every four to six months. We’re running a leadership academy, we’re running keynote programs, workshops, we’re running a podcast, we’re running, I mean, we, and there’s, there’s three of us really doing all of this. And so, we are going to go item by item and really ha, each one of those things has to re-earn its way back onto our to-do lists and our routines once.

Joe:
And so, we’re gonna, we’re gonna go through that process and we have to be willing to look at something that we even on the surface might say, are we gonna continue doing that? I have sent our BossBetter Email Newsletter every other Tuesday for something like eight years. Should I keep doing that? Like, I, I can’t at the surface immediately go, oh God, I’ll never stop doing that. Like, I gotta be willing to say… should we, and so we’re gonna go through that process. And this can be a really useful exercise for anyone who is juggling a lot. I have a colleague who embraces the motto, “do less better”, and I serve on a board of directors with him, and he’s constantly saying, we need to “do less better”. And I love this idea that you know, you pick a couple of things that you wanna be great at, and you go all in on them.

Joe:
And that actually is how you, how you succeed, and how you ensure quality for whoever it is that you’re serving or supporting. It’s also a reminder to leaders who are listening to this, that every single time you decide to take something on the very next question should be, what am I going to take off? What am I going to take off of my mental demand or my to-do list? What am I gonna ask my supervisor to help me take off? We’ve just spent the last couple of years talking about burnout in the workplace. And, you know, some guy we all know wrote a book about how there’s a massive recalibration taking place around how work fits into our lives, and it’s being driven by, in part exploding workloads. And so, if we want to create a more humane employee ex experience where people can thrive at work, it’s not just about piling on. It’s about moving some things to the side that no longer have a place on the plate. And I think that’s, that’s really important. And I think it’s absolutely tied to the conversation we just had about being frazzled. So, negotiate the undone. I love it. That’s great.

Suzanne:
And I love, I didn’t think of the article this way either, Joe. So, it, it gave you us that personal look at what we can decide, we’re taking off our list. Then you brought it into a team environment, kind of, and also a company. Yeah. You could do that at the, the independent interpersonal personal level, team level, department, organizational level. What a great exercise, what’s not serving us, because, you know, there are tons and tons of tasks and processes that people do every day and might not even know why to really take things off the list and they have to earn their way back on it. I love that. I can I use that? I’m taking that.

Joe:
Absolutely. Take it. Take it. Yeah. You know, and, and I think sometimes there are those of us who have to practice saying no, that that no doesn’t come easily. And that we know there are certain, there are gonna be certain situations that we get asked about regularly that we have to practice and be prepared to say no to. So, here’s one that, that I have had to work on. As someone who has been a professional speaker for, you know, running my own business out for 10 years, I get asked a lot, hey, can I pick your brain? Can I take you to coffee or buy you lunch? And I am absolutely committed to a, a shared value of abundant generosity in the speaker community. And I’m willing to answer questions for people who aspire to do this kind of work. But if I said yes to every one of those requests, I’d be adding two dozen of coffee and four lunches to my calendar every week.

Joe:
And my waistline can’t <laugh> nor my to-do list can accommodate that. And so, right. What I have learned to do and what I’ve had to practice is saying you know what, I have to politely decline the lunch invite, but here’s what I can do, right? And I’ve tried to reframe it in that way. Here’s what I can do. So, if somebody asks me, can I pick your brain? I’ll say, I tell you what, my scheduled is a little chaotic right now. I don’t necessarily have enough free space for an open-ended conversation, but I am always willing to answer specific questions. So how about this? Why don’t you pick the one or two things that you really want to ask me about the most? Throw ’em in an email to me and put your phone number in there, and the next time I’m sitting at an airport gate, or I’ve got 10 minutes between meetings, maybe I’ll just call you up and we can talk through those.

Joe:
Would that work for you? And most people are, are super thrilled about getting that kind of an answer. And, and it’s, and I don’t want people to feel like I’m dismissing them because I, I want to be accessible and supportive to peers. But I also have to be able to manage it against my own demands and obligations too. And I’ve had to practice that. That’s my whole point. I, I wasn’t good at figuring out how to be polite and say, I can’t say yes to that until I put some language around it and taught myself how it should come out.

Suzanne:
Yep. And at the beginning of all of this, there’s also that it’s flattering to be asked.

Joe:
Yeah.

Suzanne:
And there’s absolutely understandable desire to, to do keep doing in that. Then you reach a point of saturation or a point of busyness or success, you’re like, that doesn’t serve. Right. I don’t have the time for that. And then how do you find an alternative? It’s great customer service, <laugh> right? Response. that here’s what I can do. Yeah. always find that what I can do. I think that’s great. But yeah, think it through and don’t just stop taking the calls that that wouldn’t serve you either.

Joe:
So, there’s your homework, BossHeroes. What’s on your to-don’t list, <laugh>? All right. That’s our show. Friends, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy what you’re hearing, take a moment right now to hit that subscribe button, and that way you get new episodes alerted to new episodes every time one comes out, which is usually every Sunday. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Thanks for all that you do to care for so many, and we’ll see you next time.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.