109. Do You Have a BossSquad + Morale and Retention 911

Transcript – Episode 109: Do You Have a BossSquad + Morale and Retention 911

Joe:
Do you spend time with other leaders talking about the challenges of being a boss? Plus, how do you fill positions and keep morale up for employees in a high-stress, low-pay job? We discuss it all now on Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Welcome back, BossHeroes to the show that aspires to be food for the boss’s soul. And let me start us off today by doing something very selfish. This is the first time that I can say that Employalty is now out in the world. Look at that. We have finally, yes, we have finally arrived at a date when I, I’m not saying the book is available, available for pre-order. The book is available for order. It is here it is now it is in the world. We are recording this though, in this sort of strange, in-between time where the book is out, but we don’t have any data yet on, like, did it land on any notable lists, <laugh> or anything like that. So, you’re gonna have to tune back in in the weeks ahead and we will share updates for that along the way. Well, I am joined this week as I am most weeks by my fabulous co-host, HR advisor, executive coach, and friends just coming back from Covid, which finally got her. Suzanne Malausky. How you feeling, my friend?

Suzanne:
Oh my gosh. Hey Joe. Thank you. And congratulations on Employalty. I’m super proud of you. (Joe: Thank you.) I can’t wait to see how they just fly off the shelves. <Laugh> and yeah, so Covid it, it kind of knocked the feet at my feet out from under me. I thought I was all immune in that after what, two years? Yeah, something. But my husband and I both got it. And it took probably 12 hours before we looked at each other and said, COVID, should we test? Oh my gosh. But here we are.

Joe:
And you both got, you both got an immediate positive result.

Suzanne:
He, he was 24 hours ahead of me. 

Joe:
Ah. So, yes. Okay.

Suzanne:
Yes.

Joe:
So, what was that like? Did you guys go, oh man?

Suzanne:
Yeah. We like, well, yeah, we were sad. We kind of wanted to hold out like some world’s record or something, <laugh>, you know?

Joe:
Right.

Suzanne:
Family members had dropped around us with, you know, various, you know, more or less extreme versions of it. And we’re like, yeah, we’re tough and well, there we are.

Joe:
Uhhuh <affirmative> finally caught us. 

Suzanne:
Yeah. We took good care of each other. It was fine.

Joe:
Okay. Well, I’m glad you’re on the med. I can still hear it a little bit, I think in your voice. Yeah.

Suzanne:
Still there a little bit. Yep.

Joe:
Well, I’m glad you’re coming out on the other side of it. You, and, and I’m excited to have you back this week. So, we, we’ve done the last two episodes as sort of special episodes. So, I’ve been hankering… Yeah. I said Hankering for a good conversation about some of the different challenges that we face as leaders. And we’ve got two topics on the show today that I’m really excited to dig into with you. And the first is about having a boss squad. So let me set this up, Suzanne, and for the people who are listening because I, I think this is gonna end up being interesting and hopefully insightful for people who are listening. So, a couple of years ago a book came out from Jim Clifton and Jim Harder called, It’s The Manager: Moving from Boss to Coach. And this book Jim Clifton and Jim Harder, both work for Gallup and Gallup. If you’ve been listening to our show for any amount of time, we, we talk about their research pretty regularly. They’re sort of the granddaddy of them all when it comes to researching employee engagement in the workplace and understanding what employees need to experience at work in order to be engaged. And this book was really the culmination of so much research that they had done over the years, which continues to point back to the notion that the single most influential factor in employee engagement is the boss is a person’s direct supervisor. And so, as you can imagine, this book is filled with insights with revelations. And having read it a while back, now, there is one piece of, of data that has stuck with me and that I continue to find to be the most interesting and actionable piece of data that I’ve heard about being a boss in years.

Joe:
Here’s what they found. They found in their research when they looked at organizations that were consistently maintaining high levels of employee engagement, that there were two characteristics that kept showing up among the managers there. They belonged to a peer group of managers. And these managers demonstrated a personal commitment to ongoing learning. So let me say that again for everybody who’s listening to make sure we’ve got this. When you look at companies that are consistently showcasing the highest levels of employee engagement, and then you look at the managers of those organizations and you look at the patterns and the routines and the habits and the various characteristics that are in common. We, we saw a pattern, not we, I don’t work for Gallup. They <laugh>, they saw a pattern, which was that when engagement was high, it, it also just so happened that managers belonged to a peer group of managers. And these managers demonstrated a, a personal commitment to ongoing learning. Now, if you know anything about research, you know, this doesn’t mean causation, it, it could be a, just a correlation, but I think it’s a correlation worth exploring. I think these two things matter a lot, Suzanne having a peer group of managers and demonstrating a personal commitment to ongoing learning. So let me give you a chance to react to that, cuz I know that you’ve known this for years too. But let’s talk about why these matter.

Suzanne:
Yeah. Oh, I have a question about the peer group. So, my, okay. Out of curiosity, and if you know this, fine, if not, we’ll make it up. Or pick one or the other. Were the peer groups formal or informal? Do you know?

Joe:
Great question. My understanding is that they did not need to be formal. Right. Okay. So as long as just I work in a company where I have peers, right? And I think there was, there was another kind of piece of this, which is that we were able to periodically gather together. Right? Right. Maybe it’s a monthly management meeting or there’s a Zoom call or something.  But there’s just a touchpoint where we get to talk to each other about our work. That seemed to be the factor.

Suzanne:
Yeah. So, if, if I pick on that one first, I think it’s absolutely essential. And I think a couple of angles that I look at this just from a socialization standpoint, it’s so important that you have people that are experiencing to some degree or not some degree anyway, of having the same experiences you’re having the same celebrations, the same challenges, and be able to either commiserate with them, celebrate with them, learn from them, connect with them is, is super important. And many times, those who are transitioning from the team member to a boss role get very lonely. It feels very isolating because the people, maybe I built a relationship with these teams based on working side by side with them, and now I’m their boss. And now that relationship has changed, and I look around and who are my friends now?

Suzanne:
<Laugh>. Yeah. Who loves me now because you, you kind of separate or change, and those relationships evolve differently because you’re very responsibility for them. So having that sense of comradery, that sense of connectivity is huge. I also see it from a learning perspective. So maybe I can segue to the second one a little bit. So many of the successes I’ve had with teaching managers over the years has become because of what they’re able to do after I leave. Because they had the shared experience. You know, I’ll say, ladies and gentlemen, you now have, you know, 14 other people in the room who have just learned the same thing. Call on each other, rely on each other, you know, challenge the concept, try it out. If you learn something, share it with somebody else. Just being able to bounce things off of people who are going through the same things, I think is super important. And that, yeah. Go ahead. No, well I was just gonna stop there.

Joe:
Such, such great points. And I love that you started with the connectivity piece, right? Yeah. Because we, we, I, I think this, the whole premise of our conversation was sort of sent set up around skill and ability and, and improving in the role. But when we have a supportive network around us, we are more resilient. We are better managers of stress. We, we do have healthier outlets, right? So, so there is an impact here just from that social and professional connectedness that you just talked about here. It’s such a great point. And then, yeah, there’s this other element here of, if I can periodically get together with people who are like me and have the same problems that I do, we collectively share in the learning. You know, I’ve been participating in mastermind groups for years, and if, if people listening to this aren’t familiar with the concept, a mastermind group is where you take people who have similar challenges or problems who periodically meet together, and each person gets a little bit of time to share a challenger problem that they’re having. And the rest of the group helps them troubleshoot, give advice, problem, solve, et cetera. The idea that the collective mastermind of the whole group sort of floats above the individuals and you can access a greater depth of knowledge and experience. And that’s essentially what peer groups in manager organizations or manager groups allow us to do. If you get leaders together, even just every once in a while, who are able to say, you know, hey, I’m struggling with this one employee who you keep showing up late to work and I’ve tried to talk to her about it and I’m not getting anywhere. And, you know, the other managers in that peer group might be able to say, have you tried this? Have you tried this? Or, okay, you talked to her, but did you really talk to her? did you kind of pussyfoot around it? Were you direct enough? And all of that together really is sort of part and parcel of the development that bosses need in order to be effective in the role.

Suzanne:
I agree. I agree. And just even the validation of that I tried the right thing. Yes. The answers are answers that a boss is seeking or reaches for every day are not all obvious, right? Yeah. You are taking risks; you are trying something new because you’re dealing with personalities or new situations. So, to be validated or to have a sounding board, or to be, you know, shored up with a little bit of a confidence boost from someone that says, yeah, you’re doing the right thing. Keep it, keep it going. You might get that from your boss but the peer-to-peer, that arm and arm we’re in this together it helps you, it, it helps build a stronger culture in the organization as well.

Joe:
No question. And, and that recurring time is really, that’s really the most important resource. Like, I’m gonna let all of you senior leaders in on a secret that people like Suzanne, and I don’t want you to know, which is that a lot of times you really don’t need to hire us. You don’t need to spend the money on trainers and consultants. What you maybe really just need to do is carve out time for these people to get in a room together and help each other out and share insight and wisdom with each other and support each other and teach each other and mentor each other. This is actually why our, our BossBetter Leadership Academy program works so well. Cuz we’ve essentially created that kind of micro masterminding experience, you know. Once a month we share a topic, a little bit of information, and then we created a structure where a manager and an organization get together and talk about it and use what, what we’ve put forth to troubleshoot and problem-solve and get better. And so realistically, this is an investment of time more than anything else.

Suzanne:
And I wanted to call out a point there. So, your peer group might be within your organization. So, I said that your shared experiences, you’re building a stronger culture. You may also find that like in your academy or other places that you can join, where you can find that support as well. I know as an HR professional, sometimes I was the only one leading the charge for my discipline in my organization. So, I went to peer groups to, to solve problems, to learn more, to, you know, get a dose of new enthusiasm or energy around something that was challenging. So, yes. Yeah.

Joe:
So, and that’s why we have associations too, right? And, and we have professional development associations we can be a part of. I just got back from Montana where I was the keynote speaker for the Montana State SHRM Conference. So, shout out to, to all my new friends that I met in Billings. But, you know, think about the HR managers who are members of that organization who belong to that community, who go to that conference, who maybe access the online groups or communities that, that are available to them. Those are peer groups and those are places where people mastermind, where they, where they share struggles that they’re having, and they get advice and support. And that’s really at the heart of this ongoing performance improvement that we see in managers, in, in leaders that Clifton and Harder wrote about in this book.

Joe:
And, you know, the second part of what we just teed up there, Suzanne, this idea that we also see leaders in, in, in teams where there’s high engagement, we see leaders who have peer groups, but we also see an ongoing commitment to professional development. These are linked, right? The these are, you, you alluded to this. The, the reality is going and participating in those conversations with a peer group is an act of professional development or if you’re a new leader and you come into a peer group and you hear that peer group talking about how important it is to keep getting better and all the ways in which they try to get better, you know, you create sort of the peer pressure on that other manager to then invest in the development of themselves, right? If you’re in a peer group of leaders who go to conferences, who listen to podcasts like ours who read the latest, greatest leadership book, who are asking their organization to invest in different kinds of, of manager training or leadership development, you sort of accept that that’s how you do this, right?

Joe:
Versus we’ve all known leaders who have been a part of organizations or peer groups where nobody does any of that. And maybe after a couple of years, it would never occur to them to ask. And so, the, the culture of being in a room with people who demonstrate their own commitment to professional development certainly influences our degree, the degree to which we are interested in pursuing it ourselves, right?

Suzanne:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. We’re sparked by the, the energy and of others so many times or just the, the attention given to it that we haven’t allowed ourselves to take. And I think it’s important that, you know, I was thinking about personal growth in relationship to change, you know, and the world is changing faster than our minds can often keep up. Hmm. So even if some of our listeners maybe aren’t so thinking about career growth from a perspective of getting promotions, they’re like, I like my job, I like where I am. Well, even if you’re happy where you are, development and ongoing learning still needs to be part of what you do because change is happening so fast. Whether it’s technology or, you know, economic drivers or the marketplace. Look what Covid did from a learning curve for so many things. I just got off the phone, you know, with an or head of an organization who’s trying to, we’re trying to get really creative on engaging our teams in a hybrid workplace. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we’re having to relearn some of the management skills that we had built over time. So, the world is always gonna dictate that we’re continuingly learning in order to stay ahead or yes. To stay relevant or to stay impactful.

Joe:
Absolutely. And they’re spending the greatest resource we have time to try to solve those problems. Yeah. You know, I think the, the other thing that this data point, the other reason that this data point sticks with me, and one of the things that I’ve repeated a lot to leaders in other organizations is it’s proof positive that the investment that an organization makes into developing leaders pays off across the balance sheet across every metric that you care about in your organization. So let me say again what they found in the book. They found that in organizations with high levels of employee engagement, two characteristics that kept showing up were that managers belong to a peer group of managers, and they demonstrated a personal commitment to ongoing learning. Well, we know that organizations that have high degrees of employee engagement typically have lower turnover, higher retention, better quality products and services, higher customer satisfaction skills, better reputation, better revenue, better long-term performance.

Joe:
And so, when you invest in the professional development of your leaders at all levels, it’s an investment in lower turnover. It’s an investment in better customer satisfaction. It’s an investment in the leveling up of the performance of your organization. So the next time BossHeroes, you want to go to a conference or a training or buy some books or ask your employer to invest some time or some monies into your own professional development, you can use this data point and the other data that we have about employee engagement to connect the dots between, Hey, investing in me actually helps us get better at fixing these problems. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard anybody say this before, but commitment comes from better bosses. <Laugh> didn’t, you know, have you heard that? It’s true.

Suzanne:
It’s so true. Good. Well, I think everyone’s ready for their pitch, for their, you know, any upcoming budget conversations or, you know trying to get your spend into your, your team’s pocket for, for professional development. That’s awesome. 

Joe:
Great advice. So, there’s, that’s a powerful takeaway for this week. BossHeroes. Number one, do you have a BossSquad? And if you don’t — go form one or find one, it’s gonna serve you and your employer. Well, two, how are you demonstrating a personal commitment to ongoing learning? And that doesn’t have to be anything that takes a lot of time and money. Honestly, I’m preaching to the choir here a little bit because if you’re listening to this podcast, I’m pretty certain you already have a personal commitment to ongoing learning as a leader. But keep going and look for other podcasts and look for other training and opportunities and ways that you can just keep growing and developing as a leader. Well, what do you think BossHeroes? I would love to hear about the ways in which your boss squad informs and inspires your work as a leader. You can email the show at bossbetternow@gmail.com and share your comments and observations with us on this topic or really on any topic. You can also share questions that you would like to ask us that we might actually take up here on the show. In fact, in a few minutes, we’re gonna do our mail time segment and answer a question that came in from one of our listeners so you can reach out to us one more time at bossbetternow@gmail.com.

Joe:
And Suzanne, that brings us to the Camaraderie Question of the Week. Bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why every week here on our show, we give you a question you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. And I almost feel like I know the answer to yours right now, Suzanne, cuz of what you just told us about being ill. This week’s question at this moment is, what are you most looking forward to? Is it, you know, being able to smell again? Is it? Yeah…

Suzanne:
<Laugh>, yes. Getting this brain fog removed from my head. Yes, that would be great. Also, I mentioned before we got on the show live that someone’s having their concrete raised or equaled out or whatever across the street and it’s really loud and ignoring. So, I’m very much looking forward to them going away. Go away.

Joe:
Looking forward to feeling better. And for your neighbor’s construction project to end. Yes. That’s real, folks. I love it. Awesome. That’s real.

Joe:
I think this is a fun question to ask people or, or even just, you know, some of the questions we give in the Camaraderie Question of the Week have some heaviness to them or they ask people to reveal some personal things about them. Not every question lends itself to a quick five-minute icebreaker at the beginning of a team meeting. This one does. This is simple, this is low risk. It’s fun. It just takes a, a, a snapshot of where everybody is. If you go around the table and say, all right, forget about work for a minute, just with everything else going on in the world, everything else going on in your life at this moment, what are you most looking forward to? And you go around the table, you go around the horn and see what people will say. You can get some fun conversation going about that.

Joe:
My answer is the end of July. At this moment, I am really looking forward to the end of July. So, my whole schedule and my whole bandwidth have been chaos for coming up on two straight years from conceptualizing the book, to writing it, to releasing it, to marketing it, and then still doing all of the other work that comes with my training business, the, the keynote speaking the podcast, everything that we’re doing. And so Right. Finally getting through the book launch. And then June, I, I have like seven, six or seven speaking engagements in June. Oh goodness. It’s the craziest June I’ve ever had. Huh. And then right in the early part of July, I go to the National Speakers Association Conference. I’m on the national board of directors there, so I have to get there early and do some work. So then, and then I have a gig right after that, but like July 22nd, when I get to July 22nd, Suzanne, I have no obligations for like three weeks. It’s completely quiet. Yay. And I am so excited about that. And just, it’ll, it’ll be.

Joe:
I’m trying. Yes. It’s gonna be really the first chance I’m getting to, to catch my breath. I basically just wanna like, swim with my kids and take my kids to the zoo and go to the music park with my kids and just not think about work for a little while.

Suzanne:
Oh good. Well, I’m looking forward for that for you too. That’ll be awesome cuz you’ve worked so hard. I know it’s been pedal to the metal here for two years, so thank you. A little bit of reprieve there would be,

Joe:
It’s only 81 days away, not that anybody’s counted.

Suzanne:
Ah, okay. <Laugh> <laugh>. We can’t wait to hear how that goes. We come back. Well,

Joe:
Thank you. I will, I will let you all know. And that’s the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe:
All right folks. As you heard, my new book, Employalty – How to Ignite Commitment and Keep Top Talent in the New Age of Work is out now. You can order it anywhere. Books are sold. We are on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. We were, we are on bookshop.org, which you can source the book in support of your local independent bookstore through that site. Bookshop.Org. We’re in Target, we’re in Walmart, we’re, we’re in all the places. We’re on Audible. If you want to hear me read the book, we’re on Kindle. If you want to read the book on your little light-up device on the beach as you prep for your vacation this year. And as we’ve shared a couple of times on this show, we have also created a vehicle for you to use the book as a learning tool in your organization. If your organization purchases 10 or more copies of Employalty, just send us proof of purchase to bossbetternow@gmail.com. And we will send you the free employee book club kit, which has a video, a kickoff video from me, a robust discussion guide, and an implementation checklist. So, these resources will help you and the leaders in your organization who are reading the book together, move through that experience together and start to think about how to implement the lessons from the book. So, Employalty on sale now, wherever you buy your favorite books.

Joe:
And that brings us to Mail Time.

Joe:
Suzanne, I have an email here from Jason. Jason sent his message here to our bossbetternow@gmail.com address with a great question here goes… Hi, Joe. I am currently a supervisor in a 911 communications center where we handle 911 calls related to fire and medical emergencies. As you can imagine, the stress level is high, the hours suck, and the pay isn’t anything to brag about. What would be your advice to a new manager? Trying not only to improve the morale of current employees, this is, we have limited funds being a government agency, but also attract a new generation of people who aren’t motivated to work in this profession. That’s from Jason. I don’t have a location from Jason but wherever you are, Jason, thank you so much for your service to your community in this way. These are obviously invaluable professionals who literally save the lives of thousands of people a year in communities everywhere. So, shout out to our first responders and, and specifically to our 911 operators. Suzanne, there’s a lot going on here in this question. Where would you like to start?

Suzanne:
Hmm. Well, I too wanna thank Jason for what he chooses to get up and do every day. You know, it’s impacting the lives of so many, and we appreciate that. And I was, when I first read this, what really came to mind was, and Jason may do this from time to time, but for Jason to take stock of why he’s there. Hmm. What is it that keeps him motivated? What is the sense of satisfaction or joy or purpose or raison d’etre that he has or can tie into for doing?

Joe:
Was that French? It was. Give it to us again.

Suzanne:
Huh?

Joe:
Give it to us again.

Suzanne:
raison d’etre

Joe:
Not from Pittsburgh. I don’t know what that means. <Laugh>

Suzanne:
Probably French with a Pittsburgh East accent. I anyway, why does Jason do this? Yeah. So, Jason, think about and maybe write it down. Why do you do this? What keeps you coming back? What joy do you get out of it? And of course, there’s some obvious things, but maybe not. And then tell your story. You know, tell your story in the interview process. Tell your story to people that are already there and invite them to share what they connect with most about the job or what, you know, what’s a, a time that changed their perception about it. Storytelling is so, so, so impactful and powerful. So, I would build your story around it. And I don’t mean make it up. I mean, find your, you know, put your truth out there on the paper in a way that that you can share with people to understand it.

Suzanne:
And then with the people that are currently there, maybe ask them to, you know, give, do a little research with them. Why do they come back on what satisfaction? And they may say it’s about being with each other. It’s about, you know, helping someone in need. Maybe they couldn’t pursue a career that they wanted in healthcare from a formal matter manner or in a way they wanted to. So, this is the one way they could be part of the, that ecosystem, whatever it might be. And then when I, I thought one more thing and then I’ll turn it over, Joe, the new generation of people who aren’t motivated to work in this profession. So, it’s funny because they may be motivated to get a job, right, but maybe not for this particular one. So, I think it’s when you have that opportunity to educate people, to help them understand what it’s like the yes, it’s stress but you know, what are the rewards? You know, get out in front of people, and tell that story. Maybe it’s more in a re your recruiting efforts or in your advertising or in career fairs. So, you can attract the people that, that would be as motivated as you are to do this work.

Joe:
Wow. So, whenever we get these mealtime questions, what I’ll usually do is just take five minutes before we start to record, and I’ll jot down three or four of the bullet point ideas that I want to share with the listener who submitted the question. And like, three of the words I wrote down were three of the big ideas that you just shared. Suzanne, I couldn’t agree more with everything that you just said.

Suzanne:
Maybe go first, next time.

Joe:
<Laugh>. No, I love it when we’re aligned because that means, yeah, it makes it feel to me like we actually have, have ideas and options and answers for our, our BossHeroes. Good. one of the words I wrote down was storytelling. Absolutely. Okay. That, that this is a skill that leaders need to develop because it’s central to the kinds of interactions they need to have. When you are in environment, in an environment where it’s sort of high stress, lower pay, demanding job, we may not be able to ratchet up things like pay and perks and benefits, but we then need to ratchet up to, to significant levels, recognition and purpose. And so, you know, for, for Jason, the people that work for him, their job is the calls. Jason’s job is them. Is the, is the operators, right?

Joe:
And to be thinking every day, what are the experiences that these men and women need to have every single day to help them experience the purpose that we know comes with this job. The appreciation, the recognition. And so really thinking about connecting the dots and, and how you can help your operators experience that purpose and that recognition more frequently. If I’m in your shoes, I’m looking at ways to help these folks see the impact of their work as often as possible. And I’m not just talking about because you tell them. I’m talking about can you arrange for notes to come from other of people in the community, right? Who have, have benefited from their work, can, can you have a recognition day of some kind in the community for the operators? Can you ask other people in public service that communicate with these folks the, the EMTs or, or the, the, the police dispatch finding ways to have those folks connect and, and thank and communicate with, with these men and women.

Joe:
I think that’s a, a big piece of this. But that’s not alone. That’s not it alone. I think there are some other things, Jason, that you can focus in on. One of the, the things we know is that organizations who are trying to attract and retain talent but can’t necessarily compete on pay are seeing some success by competing in a couple of other areas that are really important to workers right now. One of them is flexibility. So, if you can find some ways to ramp up giving some people some more autonomy and influence over when, where, and how they work, that’s actually a retention strategy. And it can improve morale. Maybe this means that instead of working 40 hours a week, people have the opportunity to work 34 or 36 hours a week and maybe still maintain their full-time salary and benefits.

Joe:
Maybe they have some influence over the length of their shift or their start time or their end time or what days of the week that they work or who they work with or the time of day in which they work. Giving some of that power back to people influences commitment and retention. And so, I think that’s a big one here. The other thing, the other lens through which you could look at this, Jason, is, boy, I can’t imagine the number of invaluable skills that these people develop in this work. Communication skills, de-escalation skills, crisis management skills, multitasking skills, right? Cuz I’m, I’m on the phone with someone and I’m trying to keep them calm while also getting information, while also reaching out to a, a, a resource that needs to be a first responder. There are a lot of things that this person is juggling in the moment, and I’m guessing here cuz I’ve never done this job, but I imagine that if I came out of that job, there were quite a lot of things that I could put on my resume that would be attractive and appealing to other potential employers.

Joe:
And so maybe that’s the selling point here, Jason, as you tell people who are looking at these jobs, yeah, there are other roles out there that might pay you more. We’re, we are paying as much as we can, but you’re gonna get an extraordinary set of skills that are gonna stay with you for the rest of your life. Maybe, Jason, you accept that there’s a certain amount of transients that exists for this role. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but maybe you, you focus on getting somebody to come in and do a great job for two- or three-years, and then maybe they move on to the next thing. But you set up for them this idea that you’re gonna come here, you’re gonna learn an extraordinary skill set, you’re gonna save lives every day, and this is gonna set you up for success in whatever you want to do next. That might be a real powerful way to draw people in. I’m gonna stop there cuz I’ve been going for a while. Sorry.

Suzanne:
No, no. All good stuff. Great, great ideas. I, yeah, I love the idea of that recognition from who you’re partnering with or part of that community, because yeah, it does show that you’re b part of a bigger, bigger thing, right? Yeah. Then the little office you’re sitting in. And then, this sounds really simple, but I think people forget about the space that you’re actually sitting in. Are there things you could do to make it more appealing? You know, I went to a customer, I hadn’t been to, been to visit for a couple of years and I walked into their lobby and there was a dead plant.

Joe:
Ah.

Suzanne:
And you know, furniture was turned askew and it just wasn’t nice. Yeah. And I thought, what, what happened? Where did the energy go around that? Why didn’t that matter anymore? And even just making sure you’re freshening it up, that it’s still a place you walk into that’s well-lit or air-conditioned or, you know, food helps, or the atmosphere is something that, that’s appealing as much as you can with whatever budget or limitations you have because it’s a place you have to go to every day. So, what can you do to, you know, shake it up a little bit, make it appealing, make it attractive? That’s important to people too. Yeah. We forget that.

Joe:
Sometimes. Great point. Great point. You know, and, and it also reminded me that we know people will forego a promotion or a new job opportunity sometimes simply because they like the people that they work with. Yeah. And so, are you doing things to create a sense of belonging on that team? We talk about camaraderie here on the show and the powerful impact it has on things like morale and performance. And so, are you giving people a chance to find things in common with each other that don’t have anything to do with work as a way to offset the demands of their time and attention at work. The other part of this too, Jason, might be career pathing opportunities are there are, is there a trajectory or a path for people to grow? Can they move up to a supervisor like you?

 Joe:
Can they grow their career in public service or in your agency as a result of coming in the door at these operator-level positions? So that, that’s certainly something to think about as well. But you know, the truth is there are a lot of different things that inspire a lot of different people to join an organization, stay long-term, and give it all they’ve got. To Suzanne’s earlier point, and this will be the last point I make, the conversations that Suzanne invited you to have with yourself. Why, why are you there? Why does this speak to you? What gets you up in the morning? Those are conversations I’d invite you to have with team members who’ve been there for a while too. We’ve called them on this show “stay interviews”. What do you like about this work? What energizes you about it? Why are you here? Why do you stay? If you were gonna leave, why would you leave? The answers you get back may actually reveal some things that are important to others that weren’t even on your radar. And then those can become selling points, recruitment points or, or things you can then go all in on and ratchet up for the people that you’re trying to keep engaged. All right, Suzanne, anything else for Jason before we thank him for the great question?

Suzanne:
No, I don’t think so. Nope. Great stuff there.

Joe:
Good stuff. Thank you so much Jason, for the question. And as we said earlier, BossHeroes, if you’d like us to tackle your question, just send it to us via email to bossbetternow@gmail.com. All right, friends, that’s the show this week. If you liked what you heard, if you got some value out of it, if you found it helpful, please share it on your social media profiles, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on anywhere you spend time online that just helps us continue to fill, to fulfill our mission of fulfilling workplaces with better bosses while also being food for the boss’s soul. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mall and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from Better Bosses. Visit joemull.com today.