65. Cultural Competence + Doing Deep DEI Work with Dr. Shirley Davis

Episode 65: Cultural Competence + Doing Deep DEI Work with Dr. Shirley Davis (Summary)

You’re in for a real treat. I’m joined today by one of the most accomplished, dynamic, experts in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, walking the planet. You do not want to miss our conversation. It’s ahead right now, on Boss Better Now.

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To learn more about Dr. Shirley Davis, visit her website Drshirleydavis.com.
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Transcript – Episode 65: Cultural Competence + Doing Deep DEI Work with Dr. Shirley Davis

 

Joe:

You’re in for a real treat. I’m joined today by one of the most accomplished, dynamic experts in diversity, equity, and inclusion, walking the planet. You do not want to miss our conversation. It’s ahead right now on Boss Better Now.

Alyssa:

You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates.

Joe:

Welcome back BossHeroes. If you strive to be a better boss, but don’t always know how then welcome home. Our show aspires to be your home for insight, knowledge, perspective, and some humor thrown in for being the kind of boss who inspires teams, gets results, you know, and that people don’t hate.

Joe:

I am beyond excited to introduce you to my guest today. Dr. Shirley Davis is a global workforce and DEI expert with experience and credentials that are almost too numerous to name. Here’s what you need to know. Dr. Davis has spent more than 20 years working in senior leadership roles in Fortune 100 companies. She was previously the VP of global diversity and inclusion and workforce strategies for SHRM, the world’s largest HR organization. Her work has been featured by nearly every major news network, business magazine, and newspaper here in the US and she has worked in more than 30 countries across the globe. In recent years, LinkedIn partnered with her to publish no less than five LinkedIn learning courses on leadership and DEI on their platform. Dr. Davis holds a degree in pre-law, two master’s degrees in adult education and human resource management, and a PhD in business and organizational leadership. And it was just recently that the publisher, John Wiley and Sons sought her out to write the first-ever Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion for Dummies book, which is available now. Last year, she was nominated for Forbes’ prestigious 50 Women Over 50 list. She serves on the national board of the Make-a-Wish Foundation. And just recently she was inducted into Inclusion Magazine’s hall of fame. I cannot imagine that there is a more qualified, engaging, generous expert that we could spend time with today than my impressive colleague, Dr. Shirley Davis. Welcome and thank you for being here!

Dr. Davis:

Oh, what a pleasure. Thank you for having me. I’m thrilled and excited to have this conversation.

Joe:

Well, I have so many things that I hope we get to talk about today, but as part of this series, we always start with this first question: What is one thing bosses must do to create more equitable and inclusive workplaces?

Dr. Davis:

Thank you for asking that. And that’s an important key in critical time right now, as we look at the workforce and how it’s changing demographically, technologically, how we work, where we work, and then just looking at all of the shifts and you know, how things have changed over the last couple of years alone, leaders have got to be more empathetic and understanding and leaders have got to be more culturally competent in order to truly bring teams together, diverse teams, diverse perspectives, diverse ideas, diverse ways of working, so that they can then better service their customers, their clients, their communities, and create the kinds of workplace cultures where everyone can thrive. So those will be some of the key things I would say is yes, gotta be more empathetic. We need emotionally intelligent leaders. We need culturally competent leaders, and we need those who are really sensitive to the changing times and being able to lead through that change.

Joe:

Absolutely. So the idea of cultural competence is something that I think a lot of folks listening to this may have heard about, or maybe they’ve even done some work around it or some training around it in their organizations. How do I become a more culturally competent leader?

Dr. Davis:

Yeah. Thank you for asking that, cuz it is… Right now, as the, the focus has really come back to how do we create these inclusive cultures and workplaces? I have been working with so many organizations doing that kind of training on cultural competence and sensitivity. So here’s the reality. Cultural competence is the ability, the capacity to be able to not only work from your own framework, the way you see the world, the way that you process information because of our own biases the way our brains are wired. But it’s also the ability to be able to understand and to lead from another person’s perspective as well. So you’re not vacating who you are, you’re maintaining your own culture, your own sense of identity and beliefs and values, but you’re also recognizing that they’re not the only ones and that’s not the only way of seeing the world and of leading and working with other people. So it’s being able to see it from a, another perspective, leverage that to an advantage for the, for the company and for your relationship.

Joe:

Absolutely. So obviously we have personnel from all walks of life and I think there are, are hopefully more folks in the workplace now who recognize that the, the need to do this kind of work and to be able to understand others from frames beyond our own experiences and, and our, our biases, both conscious and unconscious, but I’m sure we also have some personnel from especially majority groups who resist, actively participating in that kind of work and the listening and the learning that it takes to create safer and more inclusive workplaces. How do we get those folks to buy in? Do we even need to care about getting those folks to buy in? What works and what doesn’t?

Dr. Davis:

Yeah. I deal with that a lot because I’ve been a Chief Diversity Officer, three different times for major global organizations. And I wasn’t always met with the greatest amount of support. As a matter of fact, I was, I was met with some resistance and lack of understanding and lack of exposure. And that’s oftentimes the reasons why there’s the resistance. Part of it is not having had the level of experience and the knowledge and understanding that this is something that’s real and evident and data-driven in our organizations. You can look at specific areas in and pockets in your organization. And you’ll find that there are some people who may not be part of that dominant group that are not feeling the love. They’re not feeling a sense of connection. They’re not feeling a level of inclusion and they’re not treated fairly and equitably. So one go to the data. Go look inside of your organizations to see that there is some real organizational barriers and obstacles that are in the way. The other part of it is I totally believe in education and learning and recognizing that some things you just have to learn it from other people who are different from you. So be open. Come with an open mind. And I realize too, the third thing is you gotta have the business case and be clear that this is a competitive advantage. This is a global business imperative. And if you want to have the kind of organization that will not only thrive, but also be around for years to come and decades to come, and that will attract top talent. This is really important. So to not focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion as a business imperative is a going-out-of-business strategy.

Joe:

Wow. Well said. And just going back to your earlier point about you know, getting people on board through the understanding of others’ experiences. I, I think most of the folks who do this kind of DEI work that I’ve encountered, and I know we’ve talked about this a little bit offline is how important storytelling and really understanding people’s personal stories is. How do we bring that into, you know, a business workplace more frequently? How do we help people access each other’s stories to create the empathy that you’ve talked about?

Dr. Davis:

Yeah. In order to get the stories outta people, you’ve gotta have the right environment that allows people to feel safe and comfortable to open up and share. So you’ve gotta ensure, first of all, tell your own stories. I have been meeting and talking with so many CEOs of these global organizations who really have had some very diverse experiences and a lot of exposure to difference, but they haven’t always shared it. And I’m asking them to be that, that standard-bearer to, to share their story as well, to give people permission to share theirs. So that’s one. The other thing is ensure that you’ve got the right policies and the right values in place. And not only that you have the values, but that you’re living the values every day. And I hope part of that is that the values of inclusion and respect, open communication and authenticity are part of that, you know, that structure of your, of your value system so that people do feel comfortable. And look, when it’s not open for people to share, then you’ve gotta do some cultural transformation so that there is that psychological safety and trust that a people will feel like they can open up retaliation.

Joe:

Oh, beautiful. And you, you almost teed me up perfectly for the next thing that I wanted to ask you about. So I’ll give you like $5 for that later. It’s like you read my mind. I, I know that we have such a wide continuum of the quality of DEI work that organizations are doing right now. Right? Some works, just pay lip service to diversity and inclusion, and some organizations are doing work that’s just kind of service level where others do work that’s really transformational. And so I wanted to find out from you, what does the deep work look like? You, you kind of started talking about it a little bit around values and creating you know, policies and structures and systems to prevent retaliation. Tell us a little bit more about what’s what some of that deep work looks like.

Dr. Davis:

Absolutely. And I appreciate you asking that because I do see too many of my HR colleagues and also my DE and I colleagues who are focused on getting more of what they don’t have, right? The, the recruitment and the sourcing of great talent. And I also see them doing training programs and then that seems to be it. So I really want to encourage all of us. Look, first of all, let’s look at this as not just HR’s role and not just diversity’s role, but this is every leader’s responsibility. And every individual in the organization can contribute to fostering that kind of culture. But one of the things I think is really important is to one, do a whole organizational assessment. Look at your strategies, your policies, and look for ways to integrate inclusion and diversity into everything you do. That’s your marketing, your branding, how the company is known, how you reach out, where are you sourcing from? That’s important. But also looking at how do you develop and coach people? How do they get feedback? Ensuring that when you’re looking at the future of your workplace and you’re identifying skill gaps, and you’re looking at where you’re gonna need leadership in the future, develop that talent, but look for high potentials and high performance beyond just the cherry-picking and the people that are just like me. Those are areas. So I’m looking at it in the entire employee experience, but also look at it in your community outreach efforts, look at it in your supply chain and, and in procurement. Look at it in, in your board level, in your governance structures and the ways that you are again, looking at this in a broader sense in the ways that you’re driving this and holding each other accountable. And that’s the other big, big piece is ensuring that this is a part of your accountability systems, that it’s a, you know, leaders are held to it. That’s part of their goals and responsibilities. It can be tied to their reviews every year can be tied to their bonuses every year. So there are ways that you make this a part of everything that you do as an organization.

Joe:

I’m so appreciative of you setting the context for this around it. It’s not just a DEI strategy, it’s a talent strategy. It is a complete business imperative because we’re living in a moment right now where it may be harder than ever before to find and keep devoted employees. We also know that there’s a, a reckoning taking place for how work fits into people’s lives. And they have never been, the whole workforce, has never been more insistent about finding an employment situation that provides optimal quality of life. And so I wanna ask you about community and belonging, right? We know that these are key ingredients, quality of life. And these are key ingredients to creating workplaces that both attract and retain talent. What does it cost an organization when their employees don’t experience community and belonging?

Dr. Davis:

It costs them great talent, great ideas, great opportunities to better serve their customers, and be able to create more innovative products and services so that it does ultimately help you be a much more profitable and high performing organization. So that really then it converts to millions and millions and millions of dollars that you’re leaving on the table, because you have employees who are disengaged. They may be there, they may show up, but they’re not necessarily present, invested, and committed to exercising discretionary effort, meaning doing what above and beyond what’s expected. But even meeting just basic level of, of expectations of performance. What we do know from the Gallup organizations, from the Society for Human Resource Management, where I used to be their Global Head of DE and I, is that employees are more disengaged than ever before. And we recognize that some people have quit a long time ago. They just didn’t leave. They’re still there, but they’ve checked out mentally and emotionally. And it’s also because leaders have not done the work of making people feel a sense of connection, building that rapport, that relationship. Caring more beyond just their minds and their hands and the work that they do, but caring about them as people and creating the right kind of environment where they can really succeed and thrive. So those are the things that we have to be thinking about as we look at this, you know, level of connectedness and belonging and, and creating a greater level of inclusion.

Joe:

So I wanna ask a question about how we operationalize that. And, and I want to take it down from an organizational strategy to these frontline leaders who go to work every day and have teams of maybe two or three or 12 or 20. How do they drive and, and intentionally nurture that kind of culture and experience of community and belonging over time for the people that they supervise? What are the habits or routines they need to adopt?

Dr. Davis:

You know, there’s some simple things, I call ’em micro behaviors. And these are just little things every day. First of all, it’s about, about listening to understand. It’s about asking questions and being curious about, you know, the way people think, the way people work, the way people believe, right. And not being so quick to pass judgment, but being quicker to ask questions, being quicker, to learn, to wanna understand, and not necessarily, as you heard the, you know, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Listen to understand, not to respond.

Joe:

Yes.

Dr. Davis:

Also, don’t focus so much on differences. What the, what, why people are different from you, but look for common ground, look for shared meaning. There’s something that you have in common with every single person that you work with, or every single person you come in contact with. So don’t be so quick to just only the look at what’s different about them. They can also practice the platinum rule, not just the golden rule. Golden rule is we treat people the way we wanna be treated. But the Platinum Rule is, no, we treat people the way they wanna be treated. And that requires us to get to know them as a person, as a human. It’s also about every day, assuming positive intent. When someone says something or does something, you know, take it from a place that they, they meant that well. They meant well. Their heart was in the right place. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone will put their foot in their mouth, including leaders. And we have to cut people some slack and use it as teachable moments, use them as opportunities to grow from it. And then I’m also big with leaders, be intentional about being inclusive. That even means engaging with people who are different from you. Stop constantly going to the same people who look, think, act like you and are very, very similar. That’s too easy. But as a leader, the courageous, bold work that you can do is to look for those hidden figures in your organization every day, and ensure that their voices are heard. Ensure that they matter. Ensure that they feel a sense of respect. And ensure that they have the resources and the support from you to do that. I could go on, but those…

Joe:

You know, I was just gonna say…And I want everybody listening to this, please rewind play the at back take notes. Dr. Davis just gave you a rich and detailed personal action plan for leading with more of a focus on inclusion and belonging. I I’m so appreciative of the very tactical ways in which to talk about that because those are habits and routines that they don’t require us to have to carve out huge chunks of time. They’re about the quality of the interactions that we have with people. And your, your focus on leading with curiosity is something that we talk about around here a lot. And how trying to understand where people are coming from prior to passing judgment. Going, Hey, what’s that about? Is really at, at the heart of so much of what, of what you just talked about.

Dr. Davis:

Yeah. And, you know, Joe, it requires a level of vulnerability, which I believe that, you know, all leaders need to have. But I think all of us need to have it because one of the most important skills, even beyond empathy, is also authenticity and transparency. And I think that they really go hand in hand. But these small tactics, these micro-behaviors I just shared with you, they are both free and they don’t necessarily take a lot of time. They just take intentionality.

Joe:

And we’ve talked a lot too on this series about the little bit of courage that it takes to just try and not be afraid of saying the wrong thing. Of stepping into the discomfort of asking sometimes because what we get out of that on the other end is so much more rewarding and beneficial. And that the only way we drive toward more inclusive environments is to step into the discomfort of certain kinds of conversations. Have you found that to be true? I, I mean, I can’t imagine that’s not.

Dr. Davis:

It, it is. I’m finding first of all, here’s the reality. And I know this from my 30 years in human resources, we, haven’t always given people the permission to even talk about these tough and uncomfortable conversations. We’ve always sort of implied, or some of it written in our policies that you can’t talk about these things. These are, these are off, off limits, right? But I’m so thrilled to see over the last couple of years, more and more leaders and more and more organizations are leaning in and wanting to learn, how do you have these, these tough and, and, and uncomfortable conversations. But I flipped the script to say, how do you have more impactful and courageous conversations? Because that’s where the learning and the growth is. And that’s where the power of building relationship and building bridges comes from.

Joe:

So I imagine that you’re getting asked to do a lot of this kind of work with your clients and with organizations around the globe, especially in the aftermath of us living with a global pandemic for the last two years. So, you know, we’re living in a moment where there’s a kind of before and an after. There’s a world before the, in our world after. So what are you being asked about more than anything now? And what has changed with regard to creating inclusive workplaces just since COVID?

Dr. Davis:

I know, and you know, it, wasn’t only just the pandemic. That was a very, very significant disruptor, but let’s also face the fact that we really started focusing more on D and I. Not only because there’s a lot of the healthcare inequities that were revealed during the pandemic, but also after the murder of George Floyd. More and more companies put out statements and leaders were very, very interested. And now let’s have some of these conversations. Let’s do listening sessions and let’s find ways that we can be more inclusive and respectful of each other. I appreciate that. So some of the common things that we were asked to do, and we did over a hundred of these, were listening sessions. But even since then, I’m glad to see that that companies have now seen this as a journey. And they didn’t wanna just do one thing, check the box. But we’ve been doing everything from certificate programs for their leaders to help them really get a deeper dive into DE and I. So we call it our DEI Certificate of Mastery, and we do that over three days. They get a certificate of completion after 12 hours of, of work, both virtual and, and, and both self-paced. But we also have been doing a lot of audits. Diversity, equity, and inclusion audits. Companies really wanna understand where do they have gaps? Where do they have opportunities? And where are their strengths and how can they continue to do the right thing, but also course-correct some things that have been historically organizationally inequitable. So we’ve been doing a lot of DE and I audits. And then the other, a piece has been around training and development and coaching their leaders. We’ve been doing a lot of assessments around cultural competence using the Intercultural Development Inventory, which is a very rigorous psycho-metric. I love it. It’s a, a wonderful assessment to help leaders understand where they are on the cultural competence, spectrum, or orientation. And then more importantly, psychological safety has been a big one. How do we foster a psychologically safe workplace? And also we’ve been doing tips for tackling taboo topics. So helping them truly get comfortable. We’ve been doing case studies and scenarios, and literally sharing with them these uncomfortable areas like religion and politics and ethnicity and, and dress code and, and culture and language, all disabilities. So we’ve literally been taking them through those case studies skill building and giving that safe space and that opportunity for them to learn from a, you know, a facilitator and how to have these conversations and learn from them as bridge builders.

Joe:

I, I am, I am going to be rewinding this and listening to all of that again, because it’s such, it’s such a complex set of components and dimensions around this work that needs to be done. And, and it’s a, you’re making the case for why this isn’t just a once-in-a-great-while conversation. This is something that needs to be woven into the fabric of leadership and into an organization. I wanted to ask you about a word, a word that you just used. Politics, I think more than ever before, at least in, in my own practice around live leadership development work that we do, more in the past three years, I have been asked more in the past three years about political divides than ever than in the 20 years of doing this work prior to that.

Dr. Davis:

I know. Me too.

Joe:

Right? We’re living in this age where there’s even greater, more intense political divide, especially here in the US, than ever before.

Dr. Davis:

That’s right.

Joe:

What, what guidance or advice are you giving to organizations? And actually, let me bring it down at a more micro level to frontline and mid-level leaders who have teams where these political divides and differences show themselves sometimes in ugly ways. How do you help teams navigate that?

Dr. Davis:

Yeah, well, in addition to learning and education first look, I’m like, look, if you have not gone through some level of training and development and coaching on this, do that first. So that’s the first thing is don’t just jump into this because it could go awry.

Joe:

Yeah.

Dr. Davis:

And it’s not only something that could have an impact on your own your own sense of confidence or learning and that kind of thing, but it can have an impact on the company. If something is said wrong or done wrong, it could go viral on social media and we’ve seen that happen. It, you can get blamed and shamed, you can be labeled. And a ultimately, you know, I’ve had to, in a number of cases in my HR role, when things were said that were so egregious and even illegal, we’ve had to let people go, we’ve had to separate them from the company. So there needs to be some education around that. The other piece is work on a culture where people do feel a level of safety and trust. So leaders have gotta do a job, particularly middle managers, on giving people the space and the place for having those conversations. And they have to take the lead on that. And the other piece is just some of those micro behaviors that I just talked about assuming positive intent. And just thinking from, from a perspective that not everybody is coming to work every day to be mean nasty and insulting, right. We’re all gonna put our foot in our mouths because we don’t know. And it’s a lack of our exposure and experience. But the other part of that, too, I, I would say is that as we talk about even politics or some of the other things that are uncomfortable, two things to really keep in mind, go, always go back to the company values because everybody’s responsible for living the company values. And when our behaviors and actions, or be even our beliefs that manifest in behaviors, when they violate values, we can always go back to that. It’s not about whether or not you’re a Democrat or Republican or independent or neither one. It’s about whether or not you’re living the values of our organization. That’s the very important piece. And I think the other part of that is, is that we have to make sure that when we have these conversations, that it’s never a personal attack, but it is here is how it landed with me. Not that you’re this and you’re that. And I can’t believe he said that. It is here’s how that impacted me. And we have to come with an open mind and an open heart to listen, learn and be willing to receive it. And the last thing I would say, it’s never about trying to get to agreement. It’s about trying to get to acceptance. I may never agree with your policies. I may never agree with your politics. I may never agree with your beliefs. But it is one of those where I have to accept that you are different from me. I have to accept that you see the world different from me. I have to accept that you vote different from me. But we still have to find shared meaning and a commonality where we can then learn to work together, cohabitate, and be colleagues or coworkers. That’s what that means co work together. So…

Joe:

And, and we have to all be bound by at least a, a foundational standard for how we talk to each other. You know, and, and if we, we can, we can accept those differences, but, but there are some, some fundamental requirements for treating each other with dignity and respect that can’t be violated. Goes back to the values conversation that, that you just had. And that’s why it’s so important for organizations just to make sure they’re not paying lip service to values, but they’re actually living them.

Dr. Davis:

Yeah.

Joe:

I know you’ve seen organizations who say, well, we value X, Y, and Z, but then we have people in the organization getting away with the opposite of that who are not held to account

Dr. Davis:

That’s right. And, and I, when we have these conversations, I always tell them, you know, let’s, let’s first of all, start with the conversation with having boundaries and setting some guardrails or ground rules, right? So I, one of the ground rules that I have, even when I’ve gotta have those uncomfortable conversations or something I’m not really sure about or clear about, or don’t even believe in. Is I will say, I will probably say something that may sound stupid or might sound dumb, or it might sound completely ignorant. So I’m gonna ask you for forgiveness upfront, that just takes away so much of the, you know, the, the potential walls that people put up. When you say, I really am coming to this conversation with an open mind, I really wanna learn, but I recognize, I don’t know everything there is to know about your culture, about your beliefs, about your politics or about your religion or whatever, but I do want to learn. And so please allow me that space to make some mistakes. I I’m sure I will.

Joe:

I wanna ask you about one other thing and I, this wasn’t even on my list of questions for you today, Shirley, but it’s come up a couple of times and I’m remembering some things that I’ve read about this recently. And so I’m gonna use what you just said, which is that might sound really stupid. So I’m gonna ask for forgiveness upfront. But I feel like what I’ve encountered is that this idea of assume good intent is, is kind of having a moment right now where we’re challenging that for folks who are in positions of power. And I guess what I’m in, what I’ve been reading in some other places is from a DEI perspective, when we ask people from underrepresented groups to assume good intent, when somebody from a majority or power group acts in a way that inflicts harm because of unconscious biases, that’s actually another way that they experience discrimination or a lack of inclusiveness is just by being asked, assume good intent. Can you help us bridge the gap between the two a little bit, especially where it involves power?

Dr. Davis:

Yes, absolutely. You know, what it means is for you, the way that you handle it, the way that you received it keeps you grounded and a, allows you to stay stable and, and really it’s about emotional intelligence, right? So it doesn’t excuse the other person’s behavior. And it’s not about necessarily when we say, and I know this in HR, we say it wasn’t necessarily about intent, but it is about impact, right? Let’s assume positive intent, but the impact of that was this. Right? And so we’ve had to let people go with good intentions who did some things that were very egregious that violated our policy and that we’re actually in, in, in a violation of federal laws and state laws. So, you have to look at it that way from it’s for your own personal attempt in the way you build that bridge or address that issue is I’m going to assume that you didn’t mean that as you did, but here was the impact that it had to me. And, and we have to address it that way. So look at the impact that it had, look at the actions and how egregious they were. And it, it, for us, it keeps us grounded, but for us, we still have to address it. They’re not off the hook.

Joe:

Thank you. Perfect. I’m so glad I got to bring that up because that is really helpful. What is the best way Shirley, if people wanted to follow you, get in touch, access your work, how do they find you, my friend?

Dr. Davis:

Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, let me just say, I appreciate this conversation. It is so timely, relevant, and we need to have more of these and look, we don’t look the same, right? We don’t think the same. I’m sure there’s a lot more differences, but I love the fact that we’ve been able to have a very thoughtful conversation today.

Joe:

Absolutely.

Dr. Davis:

Please reach out to me cuz all of this stuff we talked about to Joe today, Joe, I put it in the DEI for Dummies book. Please get it on Amazon. I’m at DrShirleyDavis.com. I am also on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn I’m everywhere. So please follow me, Dr. Shirley Davis, I look forward to again, connecting with you and then I’ve got a number of LinkedIn learning courses. Please take those cuz they’re all about leadership and they’re all about how do we create better cultures and societies of inclusion.

Joe:

Thank you for that. And there’s, that’s just a, a ton of tremendous resources that people can access at a access at a multitude of levels. I have to ask you one more thing though. My friend, cuz we all heard the introduction, right? You have done incredible work at multiple levels. You you’re like the hardest working person I know. And you’ve just published this incredible book and it is called Living Beyond What If, and I know it’s doing well for you. Can you just take a minute to tell us about this great book, cuz it’s a little bit outside of the scope of DEI, right? This is more about achievement.

Dr. Davis:

It is. This book is very personal, but this book is for every person who has ever sort of parked on the side of the road, been stuck a, a little bit and mostly asking a lot of those self-imposed questions that limit our power and limit our ability to get our dreams accomplished. And that’s those what ifs? The what if I’m not good enough? What if I fail? What if I don’t have the money? What if I’m too old? What if I’m too young? What if I look stupid? Right? And just what if I am, I’m just not I’m not gonna succeed and what if I do succeed? So I tackle every one of those so that it allows us to really build the dreams and the life that we’ve always desired, that we become a better person, a better version of who we are so that we are able to give back and leave a legacy, leave the world better than the way we found. But the only way we can do that is to get out of our own head, get out of our own way and get the courage to jump and invest in your future. And so you can be successful. So that’s what that book is all about. Oh

Joe:

Oh man!

Dr. Davis:

Thank you!

Joe:

I’m inspired! I’m congratulations. I know the book is doing well for you and, and thank you for the chance to learn from you today and thank you for your generosity and thank you for continuing to do this important and incredible work all over the world. I’m really grateful for your time. Thanks for being here.

Dr. Davis:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Joe:

That’s our show BossHeroes. If you liked it, please share it. We especially love shares on LinkedIn, which allows other bosses to discover the program and get the support they deserve. If you’d like to ask a question for a future episode or send us your feedback, you can do that via email at BossBetterNow@gmail.com. In the meantime, good luck out there and thanks for all that you do to care for so many.

Alyssa:

This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember commitment comes from better bosses. Visit JoeMull.com today.

 

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