30. We’re Hiring the Wrong Bosses + End Gotcha Interview Questions

Episode 30: We’re Hiring the Wrong Bosses + End Gotcha Interview Questions (Summary)

When it comes to picking bosses, we’re getting it all wrong. Plus, the one thing you gotta stop doing in interviews, because it doesn’t work and you look ridiculous. That’s coming up now on Boss Better Now.

Links:
To purchase the book, It’s the Manager click here.
To learn more about Joe Mull, visit his website ​Joemull.com​.
To hear more from Joe Mull visit his YouTube channel​.
To learn how to invite Joe to speak at an event, visit ​Joemull.com/speaking​.
To check date availability or to get a quote for an event, email ​hello@joemull.com​.
To explore options for coaching from Alyssa Mullet, visit ​Joemull.com/coaching​.
For more information on the BossBetter Leadership Academy, visit Joemull.com/academy.
Email the show at bossbetternow@gmail.com.
To leave comments, ask questions, or to message us visit our Boss Better Now Podcast Facebook Page.
Connect with Joe on Instagram.
Connect with Joe on Twitter.
Connect with Joe on LinkedIn.

*Full transcript under the comments below.

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Transcript – Episode 30: We’re Hiring the Wrong Bosses + End Gotcha Interview Questions

Joe:
When it comes to picking bosses, we’re getting it all wrong. Plus, the one thing you’ve got to stop doing in interviews because it doesn’t work, and you look ridiculous. That’s coming up now on Boss Better Now.

Alyssa:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. Please welcome speaker, author, and early riser, Joe Mull.

Joe:
Hello again, BossHeroes. Welcome back to your weekly dose of advice, humor, and encouragement for bosses everywhere. Whether you’re listening on Apple, Google, Audible, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, Spotify, or watching our episodes on the BossBetter YouTube channel, we’re thrilled that you’re joining us. Please welcome my cohost, professional coach, Alyssa Mullett.

Alyssa:
Hello! So…

Joe:
You’re an early riser too.

Alyssa:
I know. I was just going to say, how big of a competition is it? Who gets up earlier?

Joe:
Oh, it’s you. You’ve told us about your morning routine here on our show. You’re up at 4:30. Is that right?

Alyssa:
That’s right. 4:30.

Joe:
Okay.

Alyssa:
How about you?

Joe:
Yeah. You got me beat. Yeah. I’m in a little bit of a weird rhythm right now where I’ve been getting up a little bit later than normal. But for most of the last couple of years, I’m up around six.

Alyssa:
Okay. Okay.

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
And that’s a natural thing. That’s without an alarm.

Alyssa:
Okay.

Joe:
Yeah.

Alyssa:
Yeah. On the weekends I can definitely sleep in. I use that term loosely because my kid will get up. So, at the most we could sleep in, it would probably be like 6:40 because that’s when he’s up. Um, otherwise we’re up at 4:30 for ourselves ’cause that’s the time that I can get everything in before *sigh* the rest of the world seems to (Joe: Take over.) want something from you. Demand.

Joe:
Now do you wake up without an alarm at 4:30 or do you have to buzz it out?

Alyssa:
No, usually I can wake up without an alarm at like 3:45.

Joe:
Oooph!

Alyssa:
That’s a beautiful gift right there, let me just tell you. And then you look at the clock and you’re like, ok, yeah, I got 45 more minutes. And then the next time you open your eyes, I just shut my eyes. And so that really sucks. But no, 4:30 the alarm goes off and that’s, I don’t usually, it would be rare that I could wake up like 4:25 and feel good about my day. It’s usually the meep, meep, meep, meep, meep. Yeah.

Joe:
I was doing the Keto thing last year and had the very interesting experience of needing less sleep. And I read about this –

Alyssa:
Oh!

Joe:
that when you eliminate flour and sugar and you put your body into ketosis and you follow a Keto eating plan,

Alyssa:
Ok.

Joe:
there are a couple of things that come from that. And once said, you will need less sleep. And sure enough, for months my eyes would pop open at 5:15, 5:20. And I was raring to go. I was like I’m gonna jump out of bed. I’m gonna go do exercise. And I’m going to like, you know, walk the dog and I’m going to cook lunch and dinner now so it’s ready. And, um, the energy and the schedule impact of that was pretty neat. I’m not waking up at 5:30 anymore, but, but that was happening for a while.

Alyssa:
Well, you know, I don’t want to paint this like a broad picture of like, it’s all roses in terms of like, oh, everybody’s got to do the whole 4:30 thing or get up early and what have you. I mean, each to their own and what works for you and your schedule. The trade-off for me is that I’m in bed by 9:30 every night.

Joe:
Yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa:
So, I do still need the sleep.

Joe:
Yes, yes. I’m in the same boat. I have friends who they can get four hours or five hours of sleep at night, and they’re good. And that’s not me either. Like most nights I’m in bed between 10:30 and 11:15. And some nights, I mean, I’m in my forties now, and so I’m totally doing that “dad thing” where you sit down in a chair at seven o’clock and that is a danger zone. Because then the head starts dipping and, like, then you wake up and it’s eight o’clock and you’re like, ah, crap.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
What just happened?

Alyssa:
Oops.

Joe:
Yup.

Alyssa:
Recliner-ness. Yes.

Joe:
Oh goodness.

Alyssa:
It’s a sickness recliner.

Joe:
Well, whether, BossHeroes, you are an “early to bed”, or “early to rise”, or neither, we’re glad you’re here. And this week, um, I want to share with you some things that have been on my radar for a while, and that I am kind of starting to work into some new content that I’m writing. Full disclosure: I’m in the very early stages of gathering research and data for my next book.

Alyssa:
Ooooo!

Joe:
I’m not here to announce the next book.

Alyssa:
Darn.

Joe:
Um, I don’t know when the next book will be but, uh, I know that I want the next book to be the best thing I’ve ever done. And so, I’ve slowed down the process even more. And I’m very much in the research phase. And the cool thing about having a podcast is when you encounter research, you can pull some of that data and information and talk about it in this sort of forum. Um, and one of the things that, uh, is sort of showing up heavily in my research is that we are hiring the wrong bosses. We consistently pick the wrong people or under-prepared people for leadership roles. So here are a couple of things, uh, and some of this data has been out for a little while, the past two or so years. And you may have seen it if you spend a lot of time on LinkedIn or you read lots of business magazines, you may have seen some of this. Here’s the first startling stat, only one in 10 people possess the necessary traits that great managers exhibit. One out of 10.

Alyssa:
Yikes.

Joe:
This is from research that was published in September 2020 by McKinsey, about the roles that bosses play in making workplaces, uh, better for employees. In that, uh, same report they said that 75% of employees report that the most stressful aspect of their job is their immediate boss.

Alyssa:
Hmmm.

Joe:
We also know this is another stunning stat, uh, this is from another consulting group called Culture Smith and a white paper they published a few years ago. Most leaders, a majority of leaders, so they don’t give me the number, but the majority – meaning above 50% – spend as long as 10 years in a management role before receiving any kind of direct leadership training.

Alyssa:
Yikes!

Joe:
Yeah, that’s, you made a face for folks watching on YouTube, and yes, that’s the face. Um, 60% of new leaders promoted or hired within our current modern era fail within their first year on the job.

Alyssa:
Hmm.

Joe:
We also know that the manager on a team, the manager alone accounts for 70% of the variance in that team’s employee engagement. That’s from a book published by Gallup called It’s The Manager by Clifton and Harter, which has a ton of data in it about this sort of thing. So, there’s a pattern we see over and over again in research that we are not good at picking the right people. I, as I’ve gathered this together, I keep having a single idea that’s bouncing around in my head. And that is this: literally a dartboard and a blindfold would produce about the same results that we’re getting when it comes to who we select to manage people. And that’s terrifying, isn’t it?

Alyssa:
It’s terrifying. I don’t, maybe I don’t, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me, but it’s hitting me in a way that’s like startling of self. Meaning if it’s only one in 10 that possess the traits, how do I know that I’m the one that has the traits?

Joe:
Or there’s a nine out of 10 chance I’m not.

Alyssa:
Right? And like, what do I do about that? Because first and foremost, I want to make sure that I’m the right person. And then maybe I’ll be a little better at picking the right people to serve as my mid-level managers and all of the rest of those things. But for me, it’s like instantaneous self-inventory. Like, oh crap. Oh crap. And then maybe if like, if I think maybe, oh, well, I’m, I’m definitely, then I think, oh, well then, I got too much of a problem because I’m definitely not if I think I am.

Joe:
Right. It’s a vicious cycle. But I think most of the folks listening to this podcast would immediately raise their hand and say, oh, I’m absolutely part of the nine out of 10. When I was hired. I didn’t exhibit the characteristics to be great on day one. Uh, you know, I, I think most leaders would say it was baptism by fire. I had to figure it out. I had to fail a lot. I have said to many audiences that over my career, I see leaders heading down one of three paths. When they get hired into a management role, and they figure out that, as the famous book title says, what got me here, won’t get me there, uh, that, when I figure out that this job as a leader requires a whole set of people, skills that I’ve not been given and do not currently possess, one of three things happens. First, some managers say, I don’t want to do that kind of work. And they bail out and that’s fine. That’s, that’s, that’s probably a good decision. If they’re self-aware enough to know that they don’t want to do it. Uh, the second thing that happens is they go, okay, well, I’ve got some learning to do, and they move towards leadership development. They say, what do I need to know, and learn, and practice in order to be successful in leading people?

Alyssa:
Right.

Joe:
And then the third option is they embrace the technical management aspects of the role only. They kind of hole up in their office and they worry about the reports and the data and the schedules and the kind of technical, tactile parts of leading. And they ignore the people. And then that’s where we see a lot of harm taking place. And where people say, yeah, I worked for a bad boss.

Alyssa:
Yeah. They become the “problem solver in chief”, and that is it right? That is, I mean, obviously it’s a lot because you can solve a lot of problems, but that whole actual leading of the people thing. Um, and the other thing that I think I would add to that second avenue that you spoke of, which is this, you know, the leadership development track, where they are going to learn, there’s no endpoint to that. At no point in our careers should we go, okay, well now with, you know, 20, some years of experience managing, I have arrived, there’s, this is what I, this is what I know now. And thus, I will commence just bestowing my knowledge and not learning anything more. I mean, and we’re not consciously saying that, but probably by some of the unconscious things that we’re saying or doing, or maybe some of our actions, that’s what’s speaking to others about us. Um, so I, I think this continual earnestness, um, and curiosity about ourselves and earnestness of wanting that… To learn about other people and continuing to evolve, um, the opportunities for our own self-development is really an imperative.

Joe:
And you just landed on the really kind of the first ingredient that we think we need in order to pick the right people. Right?

Alyssa:
Ok. Yeah.

Joe:
And in order to find the right manager. So, so I’m not here to proclaim that – Ok, I am here to proclaim that we are not hiring the right people for leadership roles, or when we hire people, we are not adequately supporting them in the role. I will proclaim that. The data is clear on that. I am not here to proclaim that I know how to fix that…yet.

Alyssa:
Ok.

Joe:
See the new book down the line. Cause I think that’s going to be (Alyssa: That’s right!) part of it where that’s some of the work that I’m trying to do on this. But we know about some things that probably need to be involved in the conversation. And so, I thought we could talk about a couple of those, and you just hit on one of them, which is this continuous learning element and there are a couple of angles to it. The first angle, of course, is we have to be giving people some skills and some training and some insight before they step into the role, immediately after they step into the role, and throughout their time in the role. We know that leaders only develop through continuous, ongoing, coaching, mentoring, training, and support. The other part of that in terms of continuous learning is we know that leaders tend to be more successful when they are part of a peer group of other leaders. This is some research that Gallup has done. It’s actually out of that book, I mentioned a few minutes ago called It’s the Manager. They have seen in the data, a pattern of higher levels of performance on teams from leaders, from managers who are a part of another, of a, of a group of managers that are working together to develop and grow and share insight and support each other. So, if you’re a leader and you’re on an island and you don’t have that kind of peer group, the evidence suggests you could be less effective than someone who does. And so, there’s this idea that we’re constantly functioning as a student, right? That, that, that as a leader, um, I am constantly consuming – and that’s the other angle of this – insight and ideas for how to be better at the people side of what I do. This very podcast exists for that reason and for those people, right? This podcast isn’t for someone who says I’ve got the boss thing down, and I know all I need to know.

Alyssa:
Hmm. Yup.

Joe:
So that continuous learning piece seems to be one such ingredient.

Alyssa:
You know what this reminds me of, um, is this exercise that I have found really beneficial with some of my coaching clients, which is I asked them to build their best boss. Like, if they could take pieces of what they have experienced in the past, um, and build the best boss, what would that person say? How would they act? How would they make you feel? Right? By being able to kind of draw upon the past experiences and future experiences that they hope to have in either a coaching dynamic or a mentoring dynamic, that gives some framework for the aspects of self-development of introspection, of specific training, and things that interest them or that they believe are most important to leadership development.

Joe:
It’s like I gave you the roadmap for this conversation ahead of time because you nailed the second ingredient.

Alyssa:
Ooo, yay!

Joe:
That’s really funny because.

Alyssa:
Simpatico!

Joe:
Alyssa and I kind of have a rule that we don’t talk about the topics until we hit record. So that it can really be sort of an organic discussion. Um, that’s where it’s gold, Jerry it’s gold. Um, that’s a Seinfeld reference. I don’t know if you know that cause you don’t watch TV.

Alyssa:
I do.

Joe:
Ok.

Alyssa:
Good TV. Not your definition of good TV.

Joe:
Oh! Listen, Seinfeld was rated the greatest television sitcom in the history of television!

Alyssa:
I don’t disagree. I agree that it was, but I just don’t watch it regularly.

Joe:
I haven’t watched it in a long time either, but we digress. Okay. So, this other piece that you alluded to. We know that studies on servant leadership; the idea that my job as a leader is to make my employees’ lives easier, physically, cognitively, emotionally, my job is to figure out what these people need to be at their best every day and give it to them. To create those conditions for them to thrive. This idea as the center role of the leader has some merit to it in terms of producing engagement and having people be successful in that role. And so, this is a shift that a lot of organizations, I think I know are starting to embrace, which is shifting the role from manager to coach. So, if my job is to go to work every day and interact, and float, and coach, and assess, and challenge, and push, and respond, and communicate, and solicit ideas, and bring people together, and position them to be at their best every day, to foster belonging, to figure out the resources that they need and advocate for them, I’m creating an environment for people to thrive. And so that kind of a shift in defining what the role is, is also crucial to helping bosses be successful when we hire leaders, and we tell them your number one job is to drive revenue. Right? Or customer acquisition as a leader. Well guess what, you will acquire more customers when they interact with your personnel who are so engaged, that they can’t help, but want to go there and no place else. And that comes from the boss. And so, there’s, there’s a shift. That’s the, the, the second such ingredient that we think we know about.

Alyssa:
That’s fano – I mean, that in and of itself explains why we are hiring the wrong people, because we have the wrong thing as a target, right? We changed the target. If we acknowledge really, truly the essence of what we want in that role, we can hire the right people, the right bosses.

Joe:
There are some other traits. We’ve talked a lot about curiosity on this show. And, you know, that’s probably going to occupy a little chunk of the next book too, about that being perhaps one of the most important traits that leaders possess. Um, there’s a certain amount of emotional intelligence that leaders need to possess in order to be successful. Um, and so I think there is some interesting work that is being done in and around that angle for how do we predict the success of a leader based on some of those traits. And how do you measure those and how do you find those in the selection process? Too often, we know that we hire and promote leaders based on technical expertise or industry knowledge. And then they get into the role and what they need to be successful isn’t technical expertise or industry knowledge. Certainly, it serves them well. And, in some degree with people, it gives them credibility. But that doesn’t position them to do any of the things we just talked about. And so, if, if we aren’t recalibrating for leaders, yes, you have these things operating in the background, that technical expertise, and now those years of experience, but you’re not going to have influence because of those things. You’re not going to be able to move people to action because of those things. They’re just going to listen to you for the first five minutes, because of those things, everything that comes after is about all this other stuff. Yep.

Alyssa:
Yeah. Credibility is not a motivator for operating or, um, inducing people to commit to you.

Joe:
Yes. I think there’s a, uh, I’m gonna use this really horrible overused buzzwordy phrase. Are you ready?

Alyssa:
I’m ready. I’m bracing myself.

Joe:
I think there’s a paradigm shift coming.

Alyssa:
Oh Lord. Oh,

Joe:
*bell dings* Just giving that a ding because I want to acknowledge that…That’s a… that’s a…Ooh man. That’s a… that’s corporate-speak right there. That’s MBA buzzword stuff. But then I think there is a paradigm shift coming in how we evaluate and select leaders. And it’s going to be data-driven because most of this, this data that we’re seeing about what people need from their bosses to be successful – the emotional, psychological buttons and levers, they need to push and pull in order to get the most out of people – and the way that we’ve been picking bosses to date doesn’t work. And so, we are looking at that data and saying, well, why don’t we just do it differently and see what happens? And that goes back to the blindfold and the dartboard, right? Because no matter what you try differently, I would argue there’s potentially a chance you’re going to get better results. If the data is to be believed.

Alyssa:
Don’t lose hope, folks. You’ll find all the answers you need in Joe’s next book. Just be waiting.

Joe:
Which only exists as a loose collection of ideas. So, see me in a year and a half. Yes. And we’d like to apologize to anybody who maybe feels like we just said you were not the right boss to be hired because if you’ve put yourself through the work to acquire the skills and the values and the insights needed to meet people where they are and to create the conditions for them to thrive, then you are a BossHero and you deserve to be right where you are.

Alyssa:
That’s right. Don’t lose hope. You are the hope.

Joe:
Right on. All right, folks, what do you think we want to hear from you! Both your reactions to what you’ve… I said that really high. That was like a ‘we want to hear it from you’. I was like, Ooh, it went up there. We do want to hear from you, uh, your actions to what you’ve heard so far today and your questions and ideas for future episodes. So, if you’re watching this episode online, just drop a comment below the video. If you’re listening during your workout, during your commute, during your meal, while holding hands with that sweet loved one partner of yours. Take a minute, pull out that smartphone and shoot us an email over at BossBetterNow@gmail.com.

Joe:
Alyssa, we have reached the Camaraderie Question of the Week. Bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why, here on our show, every week we give you a question that you could use at meetings or huddles or in the hallway or zoom chats to facilitate connections and build camaraderie. This week’s question: What is the last time you did something for the first time?

Alyssa:
What’s the song? It feels like that’s an 80 song, right?

Joe and Alyssa:
*singing* Feels like the first time.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
Yeah, no, everybody go close their ears they’re now bleeding. Um, I have to be honest. Like when, uh, when I think about this, I think, well, everything kind of feels like the first time, again.

Joe:
Hmmm. Yeah.

Alyssa:
Like post-pandemic or post-vaccination.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
I mean, we’re not close to pandemic yet, but you know what I’m saying? Everything kind of feels new and I’m like, ‘Oh. I get to go to restaurants again. I get to do all of these things.’ But I think specifically my last first times now generally revolve around my kid.

Joe:
Okay.

Alyssa:
Like, so like a couple of weeks ago, two or three weeks ago, we, we had, um, bought him a kayak, his very own because we can’t all three get on the one that we have. So, he had been lusting after this one specific kayak. We got him the kayak. And for the first time we went out as a family on separate vessels. He wasn’t tied to us, which really made my heart, like, twitch and all my body vibrate with anxiety.

Joe:
How old is he?

Alyssa:
Seven.

Joe:
Okay. Okay.

Alyssa:
But he had a life vest, obviously, we’re safe.

Joe:
Sure.

Alyssa:
We went through the whole safety, you know, rigmarole before we ever even stepped a foot near the lake. Um, and he did awesome. And it was amazing. And the feeling that I get to be able to witness his first time doing something is almost sweeter than when I’m in my own body experiencing something for the first time. Because I get to see it. I get to observe it. And that’s like a whole other level of *deep breath* ‘that’s awesomeness’.

Joe:
Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I didn’t have a lot of exciting answers to this question. I was really thinking about this and having a hard time coming up with a couple of things. You did just spark something. Um, so here’s what, here’s what I jotted down in my notes in prepping for this.

Alyssa:
Okay.

Joe:
Um, last year for the first time I did a virtual keynote, right?

Alyssa:
Oh! Yeah.

Joe:
Where I spoke to people attending a conference from all over the country. But instead of being on a stage in front of them, I was in my office and it’s a totally different experience because, you know, you deliver the joke and you just got to leave space for the laugh that you don’t get to hear. It’s, it’s a really unique experience. Um, and then,

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
And you think to yourself, do I look ridiculous? Do I look absolutely ridiculous? Um, so that was a that’s a first-time thing. Um, I wrote ‘podcast’. I’ve never hosted a podcast before, and I just started that in January.

Alyssa:
Oh yeah. That’s true too.

Joe:
Yeah. Um, what I ended up coming up with is my answer was, um, gin and tonic.

Alyssa:
Ok.

Joe:
So last year during the pandemic, I had never had a gin and tonic. And, um, my mother-in-law, um, made one, one night and uh, my wife took a sip of it and said, “Oh, that’s good. You should try this. You would like this.” And I took a sip, and I went, “Ooh, that is good.” And now I’m a fan. And, full disclosure, it’s diet gin and tonic over here because of my no sugar thing. Um, so I guess that goes on the list. I’ve, I’ve become a fan of the diet gin and tonic.

Alyssa:
That’s so cool.

Joe:
Um, but the thing that you sparked just in talking about your son is, um, last week my son hit his first home run.

Alyssa:
Ahhh!

Joe:
And the like the pride that comes with that and the joy that comes with that, and, and in the same game, he got, um, he was playing at first base and a kid hit a line drive that bounced off the ground and cracked him right in the eye. And, uh, he dropped to the ground and then somehow blindly reached, jumped up and grabbed the ball from across the foul line and, and tagged the runner out by half a step. And then he burst into tears, and you know. So, we all ran out and he had a shiner, you know, from it, but all of the coaches were like, that’s the toughest thing I’ve ever seen. How did he make the out? And so that was like, I, I was like deep. I had tears. Like I was taking a deep breath because I was so proud. I mean, I was worried about him, but I was so proud of his effort and him caring about like being so invested in what happens with the team and the outs and wanting to do all of that. Like, nobody would have fought at him if he was just a pile of pain and suffering after getting hit in the face with a ball. But it still blows my mind that he made the out. It was unbelievable. We’re musicians. I don’t know where he gets that from. My wife and I are musicians. We’re like, “Dude, you’re a natural athlete. Where’s that in the blood?”

Alyssa:
Well, you know, I think that that is actually something very similar to what I mentioned, I experience is that you’re outside of yourself.

Joe:
Yes!

Alyssa:
He was outside of it. He was able to step outside of his own pain.

Joe:
Yes.

Alyssa:
and think about the game, his team, and what needed to be done.

Joe:
Yup.

Alyssa:
That’s…You’re not…You and your wife are not that far removed from that. You all are definitely putting others first.

Joe:
Well, that’s kind of you to say.

Alyssa:
So that’s an example of parenting.

Joe:
Thank you. And I’ve seen other parents and coaches, you know, when their kids get hurt on the ball field, they don’t give them a hug and they just stand there and they’re like, “You’re fine. You’re fine.” And that’s… That’s not how I’m wired. Like I’m going to go over to my kid like, “Are you okay? All right here, come here. I’ll give you a hug.” Like “Dry your eyes. Yep. You’re good. All right. What do you need? I’m gonna put some ice on it. Okay. You want to go back in? Yeah, you can shake it off. You’re good.” And I was wanting to do that in that moment. And when he came off the field, he was, he cried for a minute. And then by the time he got to the dugout, I could see him trying so hard not to cry, to get ahold of himself, that I had to tell myself not to go over to him.

Alyssa:
Really?

Joe:
And not to be compassionate because I knew that that would open the flood gates for him a little bit. And so that was another first-time thing. It was just kind of hard to be, like, not attending to him in that moment.

Alyssa:
Hmmm.

Joe:
Yeah. Anyway, not to go too far off the rails with our question here, but so yeah,

Alyssa:
No, I think…

Joe:
It’s virtual keynote, podcast, gin and tonic, and parent.

Alyssa:
There was a lot for ‘no answer’, Joe.

Joe:
There was. That was a lot there.

Alyssa:
There was a lot.

Joe:
Can’t pick just one. And that’s the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe (Ad):
Hey, BossHeroes! More than once you’ve heard me say commitment comes from better bosses. But where do better bosses come from? Answer: The Joe Mull and Associates BossBetter Leadership Academy. The managers on your team aren’t going to develop the self-awareness, knowledge, skills, and relationships critical to success in a one-day training. If you want them to motivate teams, maximize effort, and create the conditions for your employees to thrive, they need ongoing education. When your organization subscribes to our BossBetter Leadership Academy, all your leaders get to join me for a monthly learning event. These live coaching clinics, micro-trainings, and dynamic virtual summits take just a few minutes each month. And the year-round access to our digital vault gives you all the recordings for on-demand use, new manager onboarding, and more. Oh, and everything we do is evidence-based and highly entertaining – if I do say so myself. Best of all, for most organizations, you can get a year of this continuous leadership development training for less than the cost of bringing me on site for a one-hour keynote. If you want managers to lead well, they need to work on it year-round. It’s like going to the gym. If you go once, you’ll get a good workout, but no long-term results. If you keep going though, you get healthier and healthier over time. The same is true for bosses. They need continuous learning and mentorship. So, what are you waiting for? Let’s give your leaders the skills, tools, and knowledge they need to supercharge commitment and boss better. For more information, including pricing, visit JoeMull.com/academy.

Joe:
Well, we’re back again, Alyssa, with another popular segment for our show called Stop It!

Alyssa:
So serious.

Joe:
It’s a serious issue, darn it. This is really just… Stop It! Is the segment where one of us, usually me, complains about something that’s irritating in the world of, of boss land and HR world. Um, and today what I need to ask people to stop are quirky, ‘Gotcha’ interview questions. You know what I’m talking about?

Alyssa:
Oh yes.

Joe:
“If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?” That right there is some bullshit. Pardon my French, okay? We dehumanize people with those kinds of questions because they are almost entirely more about us being clever as an interviewer than they are about evaluating anything specific for the interviewee. All we are doing is raising the blood pressure, raising the discomfort for them.

Alyssa:
Yeah.

Joe:
And all we’re doing is putting them in a situation where we think we’re evaluating their capacity to perform under stress. But that’s bunk. People don’t perform under stress in the best way possible. So, all we’re doing is pushing away potential talent with stupid, stupid, gotcha interview questions. I listened to a podcast this week and the guy said his worst interview question he was ever asked was “How many paperclips would it take to fill this room?” Are you kidding me? That’s offensive. If anybody asks you that question in an interview – leave. Write a strongly worded letter. Bemoan that organization on the internet. They should be embarrassed. I heard another podcast recently where a guy was asked “How many elevators are in the United States?” In a job interview!!! “And how would you… How would you get to that answer?” “I’d Google it! What do you mean? You want you to do math on paper here in front of you?” Listen, interviews are about experience and fit. Not random knowledge or guesses. And oh, by the way, this includes cherry-picking random data from your website that you’re going to find out whether or not the candidate looked at before you got there. Like, “Hey, we updated our four core values and mission statement, six hours before you got here. What are they?” *Alyssa laughing* That doesn’t make you clever. It. makes you a jerk. Stop it! That’s all I have to say about that.

Alyssa:
Well now.

Joe:
I maybe went a little premature with the music there, but what… what… What say you?

Alyssa:
I don’t know that there’s more to say on it. Honestly. You, you said it all. And as a former recruiter, specifically for a large corporation, I would say, yes, please stop that. Because we work pretty hard as recruiters to get people in the door and screen hundreds of people to put these candidates in front of you. And then when we, as the leader or manager, think that we’re so awesome that we’re going to like…

Joe:
Right.

Alyssa:
Screw with the people.

Joe:
Yup.

Alyssa:
You know, or just be again, quirky, cute, or center ourselves in that interview when that’s not what that’s about. That’s whenever the recruiter wants to take your head and smash it up against the wall. So, I concur with Joe.

Joe:
It’s narcissism and sadism, cause you’re just interested in watching someone squirm. That’s it. You know…

Alyssa:
You don’t need to know what kind of color they are. *Joe laughing* It doesn’t mean anything.

Joe:
If you were a bird…

Joe and Alyssa:
What kind of bird would you be, and why?

Joe:
I’d be a woodpecker. I’m not even going to finish that thought.

Alyssa:
Drill right through your skull.

Joe:
Right through.

Alyssa:
Right now.

Joe:
Yeah. We can ask behavioral-based questions. “Tell me about a time when…” In interviews, we should ask situational questions. These kinds of situations, what happened to the person in this position a lot, take us through how you would handle that, what kind of support you would need. Um, those are all appropriate, but when you’re, when you’re zinging the person across from you, you look ridiculous, and it shows a complete lack of respect and humanity for that person.

Alyssa:
Hey, and folks, if you’ve recently been on an interview like that, key thing here, take this segment, forward it to that individual, and just “So thought you might enjoy this episode.”

Joe:
Oh, and, and you know what, if you’re listening to this and you have a ridiculous interview question that you’ve been asked, tell me about it.

Alyssa:
Oh yeah!

Joe:
Go ahead and hit me up on Twitter. On Twitter @Joe Mull77 or on Instagram @JoeMull77 or email us at bossbetternow@gmail.com. If we get a couple of these we’ll pick like, and we’ll revisit this the most ridiculous job interview questions you’ve ever been asked, and we’ll give out some cool swag to folks who maybe tell us about that. You think that’d be fun, Alyssa? What do you think?

Alyssa:
Oh, that would be so much fun. Yes, yes, yes. Let’s do that.

Joe:
All right. And that, that ends our Stop It! segment. I’m going to play the music one more time.

Joe:
Well, that’s the podcast for this week, friends. Our final ask: Do you know a BossHero? We are looking for those leaders who go to work every day, devoted to doing what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, creating the conditions for people to thrive. We want to celebrate and recognize them on our show. And we want to hear about how they operate because we can learn from them. You can nominate a BossHero for recognition by going to BossHeroStories.com All one word. BossHeroStories.com Fill out the form and tell us about the BossHero you think is worthy of being recognized. If we choose to share your story and they’re on our show, you all are going to get some great BossHero swag. That’s BossHeroStories.com Thanks for listening. Can’t wait to be with you again. Next week. Take care.

Alyssa:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit JoeMull.com today.

Related Posts

Previous
Next