106. 5 Questions to Ask Employees + What Coaching Sounds Like

Transcript – Episode 106: 5 Questions to Ask Employees + What Coaching Sounds Like

Joe:
An argument can be made that it’s more important to keep a good employee than to try and find a new one. That’s why today we are reviewing five questions every boss should periodically ask their employees. Plus, do you know what coaching actually sounds like? You’ll hear it now on Boss Better Now.

Suzanne:
You’re listening to Boss Better Now. This show is sponsored by Joe Mull and Associates. Now here’s your host, speaker, and author Joe Mull.

Joe:
Well, welcome back. Hello again, BossHeroes. Thank you so much for interrupting the ever-present demands on your time and attention and energy and patience and mind and heart and body and soul to spend some time with us. As you maybe know by now, if you’ve been tuning in for a while, this show is your show. It’s a place where we celebrate those bosses who aspire each day to create the conditions at work for people to thrive. If you try to do that, despite not always knowing how that makes you a BossHero, and we’re glad you’re here.

Joe:
Suzanne, I’m excited because I just came back from speaking at an event in upstate New York and when I got there, everyone in attendance had a name tag that was made by the organizer, and under their name was printed -BossHero. And most of the people in the room didn’t know what it was, but she and a couple of other members of her HR team are avid podcast listeners. So, when she explained what it meant, people — their, their heads kind of lifted, their chest lifted up a little bit. They sat a little bit taller even before it was explained to them what it meant. People were like, oh, I like that. That’s nice. So, I, I thought I would mention that and get a ki… and that you’d get a kick outta that. That was fun.

Suzanne:
I do get a kick outta it — how thoughtful they were. That’s wonderful. Man, that just connects the content a little bit more that, you know, experience they get and that proud badge they were wearing. That’s pretty cool. And I’m sure you nailed it when you got up there.

Joe:
Yeah, I, I think I did okay. They liked it. They clapped; they got books. They wanted their books signed. That was pretty fun. They were actually the first, first people — like not connected to me, like family and coworkers– Okay… to get the book, right? I actually got like a little choked up at that moment where I was like, you are — they’re getting it three weeks early too, because you know it, it doesn’t come out until May 9th. And we got special permission to distribute it to them from the publisher cuz they really wanted it. So that was cool.

Suzanne:
Well, good on you.

Joe:
Thank you. And by the way, if you’re new to the show and you’re like, who is that disembodied female voice? <Laugh>. Well, that’s my fantastic longtime co-host — HR advisor and executive coach, Suzanne Malausky. What’s happening with you, my friend?

Suzanne:
Hey, Joe. You know, I am in a celebratory mood today because my tulips and daffodils are super, super happy out there. So yes, we’re, you know, coming round into the end of, of this beautiful month, I think it’s just a wonderful time to stop and smell the flowers, so to speak. But, you know, that indicates I’m gonna have to start getting the flowers for the next round, the ones they have to plant and take care of through the rest of the summer. 

Joe:
But it’s a whole different energy when we get back to spring, isn’t it? (Suzanne: Yes.) And when I was, when I was with this group in upstate New York, they were holding their leadership meeting in a conference room that was adjacent to a golf course, and there were all these windows and it was a beautiful sunny day and everybody was like, mesmerized, what is that bright shining object in the sky? I’m not used to this. It’s so bright, you know, but it really, the whole vibe of the place, the whole energy that everybody brought to that day, I really think it was influenced by the fact that it was beautiful outside.

Suzanne:
It. Sure. I’m sure it is. As we sit here and, you know, gloomy Pennsylvania, that that sunshine is a lot for our, “we made it through another winter” feeling that we need to have. So, Yay.

Joe:
Absolutely. Well, we know that we’ve been talking on this show for a while about all of the habits and routines that leaders need to get into in order to create the kind of environments at work that lead people to, to join and stay and care and try. And one of the things that our listeners have heard me rant about more than once is that exit interviews are stupid, right? That, that asking people for their feedback, their opinions, and their insight when they’ve decided that they no longer have any skin in the game, is absurd. That what we need to do instead are stay interviews, right? Which is where you take time to get people’s feedback. You ask the people who are going to stay, right, the people who are there, you ask them a whole host of questions about what energizes them about their work and, and what do they like about their job, and if they did decide to leave, what would be the reason why?

Joe:
And by getting some of that insight from folks, you actually keep your finger on the pulse of what’s working for them, what’s not, where you may need to tweak around the edges as a supervisor, et cetera, et cetera. And so, with all of that as a backdrop, I was excited to see an article recently in the Harvard Business Review that was written by an executive coach on Five Questions Every Manager Needs to Ask Their Direct Reports. And this article was really anchored in this moment that we’re in right now, right? Where there is a lot of transients in the job market, people are moving to new places more quickly and maybe with less discretion than they have before. They’ve been braver about wanting to try something new. And so, I thought I would share these five questions and that we could talk a little bit about them because I think they’re really good. But I actually, I don’t think they’re quite perfect. And I know you have some experience with state interviews, isn’t that right, Suzanne?

Suzanne:
I sure do. You know, we rolled them out in an organization, healthcare organization that had 250 locations around the country. So, we wanted to have a common experience, and that’s hard to do when everyone’s so separate. Yes. And so, we initiated stay interviews that were prompted to occur quarterly, and we didn’t wanna be so strict about it, but we wanna encourage managers, so we provided them with questions Yeah. And kind of prompted them and kept track of them. And so, it was fun. It was a fun idea, and it absolutely works. It’s the lead indicator, not the lag indicator. You, you get to see what’s around the corner and where you have opportunities to close gaps instead of reacting historically.

Joe:
So, and those kinds of conversations, we also know can’t be one-and-done, right? We have to do those kinds of check-ins periodically. What do you think is the right cadence for that? How frequently should we have these? Like, these aren’t housekeeping conversations, like, what’s hard about your job today? Or, you know, this, these are sort of a stepping back, a 30,000-foot view conversation. What do you think is the right frequency for those?

Suzanne:
Yeah, I would think at least quarterly might depend on your industry or how often you get together with your team. And, and to harken back to what you said earlier about building habits, right? The build the culture where, which people wanna stay and thrive. It’s that habit of building the conversation into your normal dialogue. So, if it’s the end of your typical one-on-one or you carve out time just to do this with your employees just as a check-in, you know, hey, I wanna see how you’re doing. We spend a lot of time talking about your projects and your, you know, your progress to your goals, but let’s really talk about you. And people, you know, appreciate that, but it, it, you know, sometimes these questions may feel awkward. So, you wanted to build that comfort level and, and ones we’re gonna look at now, I think to your point, they have great merit and their opportunities either to make it, to work for you as a leader in your situation or culture or get to the questions or the answers they’re looking for in a little different way.

Joe:
Absolutely. And we know, because we have research in, in these areas, and Gallup has done a lot of this, that when employees voluntarily leave their jobs, we know that more than half of them say that in the three months before they left, nobody spoke with them about their job satisfaction, not even their manager. And so, there is a correlation here between periodically having these conversations and retention, and I’m with you, I think quarterly is great. I think there are some environments where that actually might be just a touch too much if, especially if folks are, are connecting regularly around a lot of other things. Agree. But at a minimum twice a year, I mean, I think you gotta have a check-in like this at least every six months if not every three or four months. I’m with you on that.

Suzanne:
I do too. And I, I think I’ve found that many managers take it for granted that they Yeah. And I think some of these questions, the way we can finesse them is to make sure you’re not leading with assumptions that and about where someone is in their career or in their mindset. Right. I think that helps too. But that’s what managers, the ones that are surprised at the ones that left Yeah. When chances are that person, that employee was probably trying to communicate and there probably were strong signals that they weren’t happy and the managers weren’t focusing on it either because they didn’t care, they didn’t know how, they were too busy, too oblivious, whatever. But great bosses are taking that time to stop and think and focus and ask.

Joe:
Absolutely. Absolutely. We talk in the book about there’s a disconnect. And the research tells us that when you ask direct supervisors, why did this employee leave? About 80% of the time the manager says that the number one reason was money. But then when you ask employees, why did you leave, it’s the number one reason only about 18% of the time. So, there’s this huge disconnect in the perception of why people leave and why they actually leave. That is rooted in some of these questions. And so, let’s get to these five questions that were published in Harvard Business Review. Five questions. Every manager needs to ask their direct report. I’ll run down the five and then we’ll, we’ll break ’em down. Number one, okay. How would you like to grow within this organization? Number two, do you feel a sense of purpose in your job? Number three, what do you need from me to do your best work? Number four, what are we currently not doing as a company that you feel we should do? And number five, do you have the opportunity to do what you do best every day? So, these are questions one through five. How would you like to grow within this organization? Do you feel a sense of purpose in your job? What do you need from me to do your best work? What are we currently not doing as a company that you feel we should do? And do you have the opportunity to do what you do best every day? First blush reaction to this set of questions, Suzanne?

Suzanne:
Oh, I love them. I think they come at come at five different angles of the reasons that people stay, you know, whether it’s growth, connecting the organization, relying on their strengths, improvements, you know, all those things. So, I think I like the round, well, roundness of it for sure. Yes. In this list.

Joe:
Yes. I’m with you. I think this is a really solid set of questions. I like that we’re keeping it to five here because sometimes I’ve seen stay interviews that are like a dozen questions or 28 questions. It’s too much because, you know, you want this to be a kind of organic conversation, even though it may not feel that way. If you have this sheet of paper sitting on your desk with these five questions and you say, hey, I want to kind of have a bigger picture conversation with you, just about how you’re feeling about your job and the organization and sort of the trajectory of, of where you’re going. And I, I have five specific questions that I want to ask you. So, I’m gonna use this sheet of paper. I think you can still do that and have it be conversational. And I think it really depends on the framing and the nature of the questions. And I think these do a pretty good job at being conversational. I have a bone to pick with at least one of them though. Okay. You look like you were gonna say something though. Let me let you jump in there if you wanted to comment.

Suzanne:
Well, a couple of things. Yeah. I think it is, if it’s like any habit when we first start to do it, it might feel a little awkward and it might feel a little robotic. Yes. So even just saying, hey, I wanna walk through these questions with you. Let’s work with me on this. And then as you go along, you find a couple of favorites. You might find ones that they, they respond to better. Cause I want it to feel like, sit here, I’m putting a hot light on you. Right. And I’m going to drill you. Because you wanna create a safe environment where they can like, be vulnerable or find words they might not have ever expressed before to give you answers to things. Yeah. So, yeah, be casual with it. Be cool, be intentional.

Joe:
And that repetition is key, right? Because we, you know, people who’ve been listening to the show for a while have heard me say that my favorite definition of the word culture is that culture is the way we do things around here. And so, culture is really rooted in experiences and what are the experiences you have again and again. And so yeah. The first time your boss sits down with you to, to have this kind of conversation, it’s gonna be like, wait, what’s happening right now? This feels weird. But the more you do it, that’s why that, that frequency is so important. The more natural it becomes, the more it becomes a part of your culture. It’s the way we do things about here, which is we care about these bigger picture things.

Suzanne:
Yep.

Joe:
All right. Let me pick my bone. That sounded awkward. Okay. no, let me <laugh>, let me quibble with one of these questions here. Okay. and its question number two, do you feel a sense of purpose in your job? And Suzanne, you’ve known me for a while, and I bet you know what my quarrel is with this question. What do you think I’m gonna say?

Suzanne:
Can I, I think you’re gonna say don’t ask a closed-ended question when you’re trying to have a conversation. This is just a kind of a yes or no. Well, that’s that…

Joe:
That is a right answer. Thank you very much. You win the prize. Yay. Yeah. And, and especially if you have employees for whom this kind of a dialogue doesn’t come easily, or maybe there’s not a strong relationship there, this, as soon as you ask a closed-ended question, you’re gonna get a yes or no answer. You know, if you ask people, do you feel a sense of purpose in your job, they’re gonna go, yeah. And then what do you say? Right. You know? 

Suzanne:
And tell me more about that.

Joe:
Yeah, yeah. I can probe a little bit. I could try to explore that a little bit. Or maybe we just tweak the question slightly to get more specific. And I think the best way to do that is actually just by saying, when do you feel a sense of purpose in your job? Just adding that word at the beginning changes the whole conversation because it assumes that they’re gonna feel it around something. And if they actually say, you know what, not, not very often, then that’s a different conversation and you can explore that. But if I ask, so when do you feel a sense of purpose in your job? I’m gonna ask them to start accessing their memories more than the creative part of their brain that they would access when they’re asked. Do you feel this?

Suzanne:
No, Joe, I totally agree. And then I think some people might not think of life as going around with a purpose for anything. My purpose is to get paid. Yeah. So, is there any other prompting you might give or alternative word to get the same feelings or thought process out of that person?

Joe:
Yeah. I tend to ask a lot of questions or tend to prefer a lot of questions that ask them to think about their energy. Right. When are you most energized at work? Yep. Or what parts of your job do you enjoy the most? Yeah. Because we’re still kind of zeroing in — Yeah. On that alignment and that that sort of personal satisfaction and, and maybe they’re noticing the pieces and parts of their experience that pick them up that they, they gravitate toward the most. Which actually ties into the fifth question here, which is, do you have the opportunity to do what you do best every day? Yes. Which is a question that’s rooted in strengths. Right? It’s rooted in this idea of trying to ascertain what people’s gifts and talents are and create some alignment for them in their job role. And so, I like that this question is here. And it really kind of ties into that other one, right?

Suzanne:
Yeah. Again, it’s a yes or no. So, it could say yes, and then you don’t know what it is. So, I, the more important thing here is where do they, where do they feel their best or where, what opportunities do they have? So, it could be what opportunities do you have to do your best every day? Yep.

Joe:
Or even just putting that word when in front of it, when do you have the opportunity to do what you do best? Or never what? Yeah. <laugh>, you know, and, and here you could ask one of those questions like, when are you most excited at work? And you are gonna get those folks who are like when it’s time to go.

Suzanne:
Lunchtime yeah. You know, and Okay, that’s fine. But aside from that, yeah. Are there pieces and parts of your job that you just tend to like more than others? Yeah. I, and sometimes, you know, laugh at people’s jokes, but then say, you know what — you know what, Suzanne, I think you kind of have a sense of what I’m getting at here, which is like, you know, across the entire day, what sucks the least. Right. <laugh>, what’s third or fourth on your list of things? That’s right. You can, you can tolerate here. Okay. 

Joe:
That’s right. What other thoughts do you have about these questions, Suzanne?

Suzanne:
So, number three, I love the idea of what do you need from me to do your best work? So as leaders, we know we’re here to support our talent and to figure out what we can do to be advocates of, of them or to help develop or train or whatever. But I’m not sure you’re gonna get that kind of a, what do you need from, what do you need from me to do your best work? Yeah. Maybe I wanna ask a little but more specific for feedback.

Joe:
Yeah, yeah.

Suzanne:
It could be — in what other ways could I support you?

Joe:
Yes. Yep.

Suzanne:
Or what feedback do you have for me on how effective I am as a leader for you? Yep. Maybe along that line, do you think?

Joe:
I, yeah, absolutely. I think Daniel Pink, one of my favorite authors just posted recently on one of his platforms. I think I saw it on LinkedIn, this really simple but powerful insight, which is that we’ve sort of gotten used to the word feedback so much that it’s almost overused in some corners. And for some people, it’s pejorative, right? That people generally aren’t comfortable giving feedback. And there’s a power dynamic with my boss. I may not be comfortable giving feedback up, especially if what I wanna say or what I have to say is a bit negative. And so, his suggestion, his simple insight that I thought was really cool was just swap the word feedback for advice, because people tend to be a lot more comfortable giving advice than they do than they are giving feedback. And so, even simply saying, so I’m just curious, do you have any advice for me about blank? Right. Or do you have any advice for me just about making sure that I’m giving you what you need to do your best work? And so, when you ask for advice, I think it’s a granting of permission to do something that comes a little more easily to people than giving feedback.

Suzanne:
And I just finished doing a performance review for a CEO, so it was a 360. So, I’m talking to peers, to board members, to other leaders. And I ended up asking the question because they were also very kind. They really had, which is wonderful, you know, we’re not trying to find trouble that isn’t there. Yep. But there’s always a way that anyone can develop. So, my question ended up being, what do you wish for this person?

Joe:
Hmm.

Suzanne:
So, then it becomes a little bit more supportive type of data or even feedback. Yeah. And so, the answers might have been something like, well, I wish she could delegate more to find more time for herself.

Joe:
Interesting.

Suzanne:
I wish. So maybe for manager, I wish you saw the value in another team member Hmm. Or you were able to handle that conflict I observed with so-and-so better. I don’t know. Yeah. That, that, I would just offer that as an alternative. And many of, like this question, like many others, it depends on what kind of some norms are. Yeah. maybe you already have a coaching, coaching culture, and it’s easier to do that. Maybe you’ve never had these conversations before. So yeah, definitely be creative with some alternatives, how they might land. 

Joe:
Yeah, absolutely. And, and as we wrap up this piece, let’s make sure for everyone listening that we point out explicitly the impact that this can have on employees, right? Because when we ask people for their insight, and when we are invested in the answers, when we’re invested in active listening, and when we really, genuinely care about the answers, and then when we act on the answers whenever we can, you’re actually signaling you are empowering that person. You talk about em; we talk about empowering people in the workplace a lot. And that word is sort of become just really foggy, I think, to a lot of folks. But this is part of doing that is I’m granting you power to influence me and my style and the organization and how you sit here and what you’re doing because we know those things matter. And if you’re gonna take advantage of it and signal to us and share with us what your perspectives are, we care about that and we want to act on it. And so, you really are creating that environment that tends to be the kind of environment people want to be in. So, there’s a real impact here with these kinds of questions.

Suzanne:
You also have the chance to increase your transparency and build trust, because I would, the, the cautionary tale here might be careful you’re not overpromising in your answers. Right? Right. That you get so excited or you’re asking for, you know, feedback about the company and you, you, you can influence, but you don’t have the final say on something. So, make sure you, you kind of build the expectations of what you can or cannot do with the information they’ve given you, depending on what it is.

Joe:
I think we gave a BossScript here on the show a while back around, here’s what I can do. Right. Really as a way to sort of, if somebody asks for something that’s outside the realm of possibility, you can thank them and say, you know, here’s what I can do Babababa, and you kind of go into that. I wouldn’t say Babababa, cuz they’re gonna wonder what you said that. Yeah. <laugh>. All right. Well, I think that’s a good set of questions. We’re gonna link to that set of questions that was published in HBR on our podcast page for this episode. So just go to bossbetternowpodcast.com. Go to this episode and in the transcript there, you will see a link to that article if you’d like to find it.

Joe:
And that of course brings us to the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe:
We know that bosses build camaraderie on teams by making it easier for people to find things in common with each other. That’s why here on our show every week, we give you a question you can use at meetings to facilitate connection and build camaraderie. Our question this week, Suzanne, is as follows, what is your favorite photograph of yourself? What was that day like? And I think maybe for the first time ever, that’s technically two questions in the camaraderie question of the week, but they sort of go together, right? What is your favorite photograph of yourself? What was that day like? And boy, that second question makes the first question more interesting, doesn’t it?

Suzanne:
It sure does because a couple photographs came to mind with the first question, the second one, I’m like, oh no, I’ve got the one, I’ve got one. Right? Yeah. I really narrowed it down. <Laugh>, I was gonna tell you a story. My, my mom used to sing a song to me, and I didn’t know what it meant until I was older.

Joe:
Okay.

Suzanne:
And so, this is, I think it was a song that came out maybe Las probably seventies, but it’s you’re so vain. You’re so vain. Yes. Right.

Joe:

Carly Simon, right? Is that Carly Simon?

Suzanne:
Right. Bet you think his song is about, you know, I’m like, yeah, yeah. I don’t know what vain is, but I think this song is about me <laugh>. So, so that little girl and me loved all pictures of myself, right? Right. And so, when I was thinking about this story, I went back to a little girl picture, and it was the first day of school in kindergarten for kindergarten I believe. Oh wow. Is what I can tell. And it was a bright sunny day, you know, that. And all I can remember is I’m standing there with this attitude cuz I’ve got a pair at this time, hip huggers and bellbottoms, even for four-year-olds were in style. So, I had this little plaid denim, hip huggers and this little red jacket, and I just thought I was all that mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it was with my older brother and sister and we’re all happy. And our best dog checkers was right there. And it just brought back wonderful memories. Yeah. You know, and I can think of the, what it felt like and just how I was excited and, you know, to be, to be good living that day. So it was, it was a good one.

Joe:
That’s fun. It, it just feels like, I, I, when I look back at pictures of myself at that age, it, it, I, it’s almost like I don’t even have memory of those moments. It’s like watching a movie of yourself, you know, but in, in your mind, it’s almost like I, I don’t know about other people, but it’s like, I don’t remember being there as much as I can almost see myself from across the room. Does that make sense?

Suzanne:
You’re right. And it, it is like, I don’t remember before that or anything after that, but I can almost put myself in that moment if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Maybe a little bit. I can feel it, I can almost smell it. Right. I can feel the air and it was Dewey and smell the Dog, that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean that, that’s just brought back great memories of a carefree childhood. 

Joe:
So that’s a, that’s a good photograph when you can remember like what the day felt like that that actually is true for the photograph that I thought of as my answer to this question. So, my wife and I have two photos from our wedding day up in these frames on, on the bookcases in our living room. And we will be married 17 years this summer. So, they’ve been around for a little while. And on the day, we got married, it was July 30th, and we got married in a church that did not have air conditioning. And in western Pennsylvania, if you’ve been in this part of the country in July, it is oppressive humidity. And it was something, something like 94 degrees this day. And I’m wearing a tux, right. Undershirt, tux shirt, vest jacket. Ooh. Right. Yeah. Jess had a, a sleeveless wedding gown on, so she was a little cooler than I was, but we were both just cooking. And then there was this massive thunderstorm right before the ceremony started. So, the whole day, the whole air was just thick with moisture. And like you could see our hairs like magic melt to our face in the picture. Yeah. But we’re also stupid happy right. <Laugh> because it’s the wedding day, we’re all dressed up, but we’re absolutely cooking. And so, oh my gosh. When I look at that picture, it’s a lot of fun. It was a special day, but I also remember that experience of it just being stifling hot,

Suzanne:
Great memory and worth every drop a sweat. Absolutely. For during and since No doubt. Absolutely. <laugh> Congratulations on 17 years. That’s awesome.

Joe:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. And I think this question could be a fun thing to do, maybe if, especially if you have a little bit of extra time, you could ask people to bring the photograph in right? You could ask, you could make a bulletin board of it. You could make a collage of it if you made copies. You know, maybe if you did this for a kid’s pictures, you could ask people to guess who you know, guess who Yeah. In the photo. Yeah. Who is each kid? Sure. I think you can have some fun with this to build camaraderie, so

Suzanne:
No doubt. It’s a, it’s a great one.

Joe:
That is the Camaraderie Question of the Week.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne. Well, the last segment for the show this week is about coaching, and we talk about the concept of coaching, but I think that the concept of coaching is something that we don’t spend enough time illustrating in terms of how it works. And we know that coaching is one of the core experiences employees must have to be engaged at work. It’s also a key ingredient to this great boss perception that we’ve put in this new book that I’ve got coming out in the forthcoming book. I write exactly what a coaching conversation sounds like so that we can give people a snapshot of how this goes. So, I’m gonna read to you a little sub a little snippet from the book, and then I’m gonna read through this sample coaching conversation that we have in the book, and then we’ll break it down a little bit. Okay. So here it is. This is from Employalty: How to Ignite Commitment and Keep Top Talent in the New Age of Work.

Joe:
Coaching is the act of helping someone sort through what they know, think, and feel to determine their next actions. True coaching involves very little feedback or advice. The bulk of coaching is asking questions. Here’s an example. Imagine that one of your employees pops into your office waving some papers and says, hey, how did you want us to handle these requests for installations that came in past the deadline? This is a topic you reviewed recently at a meeting in the interest of speed. Some leaders might just give the answer or perhaps you are tempted to reply with. We just talked about that at the ops meeting on Monday. Don’t you remember in a situation like this though, coaching is an opportunity to assist the employee while also nurturing commitment.

Joe:
A coaching response might unfold like this. Well, thanks for asking Jim. What options do you see Jim pauses to think while the cruiser fully booked already? So, we can’t guarantee the installs. Good point. But what can we do for them? Well, if the schedule changes, we might be able to fit them in. We should. Oh, that’s right. We said we were gonna run a waitlist, right? That’s right. What’s your next step? I remember now I’ll let them know that they’re on a waitlist and that we’re gonna get to them. If room frees up on the schedule, I’ll send ’em an email. Is there a better way than email? Oh, I, I suppose a phone call is better, so they don’t feel dismissed. Oh, plus I can answer all their questions at once instead of exchanging seven more emails. I love that you’re thinking about how they’ll take the news.

Joe:
Great job. Notice in the example above that the boss almost exclusively asked questions. Plus, how he asked those questions matters. He wasn’t playing Gotcha or sarcastically testing the employee. With coaching, you are patiently engaging in a supportive conversation designed to activate the employee’s thinking. You help Jim sort through what he knows, or thinks is the best path forward. You also praise his thinking and reinforce his instincts in a conversation that likely took just 60 seconds. You made Jim feel knowledgeable, capable, and valued.

Joe:
All right, Suzanne, that’s the short excerpt from the coaching chapter in the book. and I know you know this as well as anybody cuz you are our resident executive coach. And so let me hand this off to you. What are the pieces and parts of that conversation and why do they work?

Suzanne:
Well, I first of all, it’s in the moment. So, so I think it’s the discipline that leaders can have to think that is their job to do it in the moment, so it doesn’t become that feedback word. <Laugh>. Yep. <Laugh>. Right? It’s like you, how do you grab the opportunity that’s right before you to get to guide, to support getting someone in the right direction? I also like the fact of being able to watch your tone. You don’t wanna catch somebody forgetting something, so it’s it, you know? Yes. You know, people get pressure, they get nervous, they get, they, they don’t stop to think. So, helping to give them that space in time, just pause for a minute. What do you think? What do you think of some options are, it also shows that it shows mutual respect. Like I believe in you and your ability to do this job. So, I’m asking for your, your input. It’s easy for me. So maybe this takes, I don’t know, 20 seconds longer than a conversation of, or even 30 seconds longer than a conversation which involved just telling them the answer. Yep. but in that investment of another 20 seconds, you gain so much more and they’ll me remember it next time they’ll feel more confident on the answer. And this one, this example even said, and how do you make that even better? So, their first answer wasn’t necessarily the ideal one, right? So, you didn’t say, oh, come on. You know, you didn’t say wrong. You said what?

Joe:
Is there a better way? You didn’t make a buzzer sound and <laugh>

Suzanne:
Yeah, I tried to coach you, but that didn’t ha that didn’t work. Right. I gave the opportunity to get the right answer. So, if that’s, if you live through sarcasm and humor like I do, I have to be very careful not to get snarky or to be almost think, think I’m helping them along. This is worth the investment in the conversation. So, I love it that way and I love that it’s questions and it guides them, but it’s guided questions to get to the right answer.

Joe:
And this, this really is the transcendent leadership skill, and we know that it is because if you’ve ever worked for a boss who coaches, it’s really a transformative experience. And if you’ve ever developed this skill, I mean you, you almost feel like you’ve got a superpower. I think when you start engaging in these conversations, you have a sense of where you want to go. You just have to ask the right questions in the right order to get everybody there. And even if you don’t know where you want to go, you are at least participating with such an open mind and are such an active listener that you are willing to let questions guide where the conversation goes. And so, I want to advise and suggest to our listeners that, that yes, you should go get formal training and coaching skills. You should take a course or go do a masterclass or use a coach to become a better coach.

Joe:
Go get a certification if you can. It’s really that powerful and that valuable. But if you can’t go get formal training, it doesn’t mean you can’t try this. It doesn’t mean you can’t just say the next time somebody comes to me, to me with a question and I think they know the answer, I think they have the ideas or the insights or the knowledge. I’m just gonna try to help them sort through their knowledge and ideas by just asking questions. And by not giving them the answer or giving them advice, I’m just gonna stick to asking questions. And see where it goes. And you know, for, for some people on your team, you may have to prepare them for this cuz they’re gonna be like, what are you doing? Why aren’t you just telling me the answer? Who are you? Listen with me.

Joe:
Yeah. What is happening right now? But if you say to your team, hey, listen, I know that as a leader, one of the things that I need to do is I need to be a better coach. I need to be better at not just telling people what to do but mining you for your insights and your idea and getting your ideas and your perspective. And so, you may notice me asking you more open-ended kinds of questions. I’m not testing you or playing. Gotcha. Right? It’s not a trick, it’s not a perf it’s not an evaluation. When I ask you, well, what options do you see? I’m really just trying to be a better leader in that moment for you and for me.  And I think people will accept that as sincere.

Suzanne:
I do too, Joan. I really think it co boils down to a mindset and what you believe your job is as a leader. If you believe it’s to develop talent, if you believe it’s to motivate. And I had couldn’t go what you were saying, what took me back to Daniel Pink’s point in motivation in his book Drive about autonomy. This was what builds autonomy, mastery, and even purpose, let’s say. Yep. But in this example, it’s that ability to think independently, which, you know, what makes your job easier. Yeah. Yeah. These are the kind of conversations you have to then prevent the crucial conversations. Exactly. Right. That can come later. Or the bad performance review. This is an investment in their, their ability to perform even better. And if you don’t have that mindset, maybe that’s the work you have to do first.

Joe:
This saves you time in the long run. Because when, when your employees start to expect that, you’re gonna ask them, okay, Suzanne, well what options do you see? Ooh. All right. That’s one way to go. And, and alright, if I wasn’t here, what would you do? And what is your gut telling you and what are you not considering before you make this decision? Right. You just ask a lot of those questions, help them sort through this stuff. You do that again and again and again. They’re gonna start to predict that behavior and they’re gonna do it in their own mind before they walk into your office. And so, you end up getting time back later that you invest on the front end in trying this, this approach. The other thing that I, go ahead.

Suzanne:
Well, I was gonna say, you know, where we have the best opportunity to practice this stuff.

Joe:
Go

Suzanne:
Your kids.

Joe:
Yep. <laugh>, we could have made this a Boss Like a Mother segment. Yep. 

Suzanne:
That’s right. If you want your kids to have grown up to be responsible results, here’s some tricks and tips. Maybe not tricks, but you know, kids come to you with a problem, you ask them what they think the solution could be, what options do we have? Yeah. what else do we need to know? So, I if you, so I mean I practice a lot of these things on my kids. They came out okay.

Joe:
Yeah. All right. And I’m doing that right now with my youngins, right? Yeah. And you’re,

Suzanne:
They’re the perfect age for that.

Joe:
Yeah. And it requires a little bit of patience because sometimes the first-blush answers are terrible and you say, well, what options do you see? I don’t know.

Suzanne:
Yeah. Blink. Blink.

Joe:
Do it for me. Blink. Blink. Yeah. Can I watch YouTube? Blink, blink? You’re like, no, no, no, you’re an intelligent person. We’re just gonna sit here until you start sorting through this. Right. Because my job is to help you like develop the brain that you need to go out there and be successful. Right. And have coping skills and be a That’s right. Contributing member of society. Maybe don’t say it that way to your direct reports.

Suzanne:
<Laugh>. No, please don’t. Yes.

Joe:
One other point about this though, and I think this is a really important distinction, coaching is not appropriate if the person doesn’t have the answers. Right? Coaching is not appropriate. You can’t, if a new hire has been on the team for three weeks and walks into the office and says what, what boxes am I supposed to check in the software when this new order comes in? And you say, well what options do you see? And they go I haven’t gotten any training on it yet. So, zero sir <laugh>. Right? That’s probably not the best moment for coaching is a moment environment teaching, right? Yes. The other time when it’s not appropriate to get into coaching is if you are in an emergency or urgent situation, right? There are times when they, people need you to be decisive to, to lead and to be in charge, and to delegate. And so coaching is great when you believe they have the answers, and you can spend a little bit of time investing in the development of that person in the moment. So that is what coaching sounds like. Well, Suzanne, thank you so much for weighing in. I’m excited by the ways in which I think some of our listeners can apply that very specific, specific circumstance and, and practice some of those techniques.

Suzanne:
Well, you’re welcome and I’m excited to hear any feedback or, you know, any new emails that we get asking for a few further pieces of advice or wanting us to celebrate their success in having given it a try.

Joe:
Absolutely. And if you’d like to send us a question or just tell us about your successes, you can send us an email at bossbetternow@gmail.com. That’s the official email address for the show. We read all of the emails that come in from you and every question that we’ve ever done here on the show for mail time or any of our top-of-the-show segments that have come in from BossHeroes like you have typically come in through that email address. So, if you’d like us to talk through something that you’re struggling with, just email us at bossbetternow@gmail.com.

Joe:
All right, friends, before we wrap up today, I wanna be straight with you about something. There is a pretty good chance that you are sick of hearing me talk about my new book. You’re almost certainly sick of hearing me ask you to order it. Trust me, I get it. And you know what? I am sick of asking to be honest. Asking people to go out and buy my thing has always been really painful for me. I would much rather just focus on the stories and the ideas and the coaching and the advice and really kind of getting under the hood of what makes people tick and how you cultivate commitment at work. But I want you to know that all of the pre all of the asking has been about driving pre-orders, which are insanely important. They signal to the media to cover a book. They signal to retailers to carry a book and, and they signal to newspapers to consider me for a bestseller list if we’re able to get into that category. In other words, pre-orders really, really matter. And I’ve talked to a lot of you at events and whatnot where you’ve said, oh, I’m definitely gonna get your book.

Joe:
Well, here’s my ask. If you’ve gotten any value from this podcast over the 100-plus times that we’ve shared an episode with the world, it would mean a great deal to me. If you’d consider taking a moment right now and jump over to Amazon or Barnes and Noble online and order your copy of Employalty today, it makes a big deal that those sales take place before launch day. By the way, you can also source your book through your local bookstore over at indiebound.org. And when it gets to you, I promise you’re gonna hold in your hands. What I know is the best piece of work I’ve ever done. It’s a blueprint for the kinds of experiences and interactions you and new employees need to have to supercharge commitment and overcome hiring and staffing challenges. Whenever you go to those sites, just search my name, Joe Mull, or the book title Employalty and please pre-order one today. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to our show, for joining us week in and week out. And most importantly, thank you for all that you do to care for so many.

Suzanne:
This show is sponsored by Joe Mull & Associates. Remember, commitment comes from better bosses. Visit joemull.com today.